Possible Alternative for Synchronized Multizone Audio

[redondo_se]

Hi guys,

I've spent quite a few hours over the past couple of weeks trying to get simultaneous sync'd music playing in my living room and office. I think using Virtual Audio Cable may be a good alternative to trying to play the same thing on multiple instance of WinAmp at the same time. NO, I'm not affiliated with VAC in any way, I just think this might help some people. VAC can be found here:

http://spider.nrcde.ru/music/software/eng/vac.html

The idea is to use only 1 source (e.g. WinAmp, foobar, streaming music from Yahoo!, etc.) and then use VAC to "pipe" the output to multiple sound cards or multiple other fat clients.

I don't have a lot of time to write a long explanation, but the people here are smart enough to get what I'm talking about.

MULTIPLE SOUND CARDS IN SAME MACHINE
-Send output from WinAmp or whatever to a virtual audio cable.

-Use the repeater application included with VAC to "pipe" the output from the virtual cable to each sound card. Note that the buffer sizes (measured in ms) MUST be the same for each repeater, or you are guaranteed to get out of sync.

DISTRIBUTED FAT CLIENTS

The idea for distributed fat clients is to "pipe" the output to remote machines using esound. You must have an esound server running on the remote client. I only experimented with this a little, so I don't know how well it scales beyond 2 machines. I also only used the esound server on linux, but a windows version exists.

Some tools:

esound server for windows:
http://www.liquid-reality.de/main/projects/esound

esound server written in java:
http://www.jcraft.com/jesd/

esound winamp output plugin (winamp 2 ver works with ver 5):
http://www.linuxfan.dk/index.php?page=esound

Jasper's Line In plugin for winamp:
http://home.hccnet.nl/th.v.d.gronde/dev ... index.html

esound windows "soundcard driver" (can only output to 1 esound server):
http://www.clingman.org/winesd/

IMPORTANT, both the winamp esound plugin and the winesd "soundcard driver" have problems if the esound server is using authentication. To avoid this, I started my esound server on my linux box like this:

esd -promiscuous -public -tcp -port 16001 &

Please also note that there seems to be a lot of warnings about running the esound server on a machine that is not firewalled to the internet.


-Send output from WinAmp or whatever to a virtual audio cable.

-For local machine, you can either use repeater application to "pipe" from virtual audio cable to local sound card, or use winamp with linein plugin and output to local sound card.

-For remote machines, you can either use repeater application to "pipe" from VAC to WinESD driver (which then broadcasts to remote machine), or use winamp with linein and esound output. Note that the WinESD driver can only send output to 1 esound server, but you can have multiple winamps, each sending to a different fat client.

I had pretty good success with a 2 computer setup using 3 instance of winamp. 1 source playing to VAC, 1 client using linein from VAC and outputting to local sound card, and other using linein from VAC and esound plugin output to remote machine.

NOTE that I had to run both "client" winamps in REALTIME to maintain sync. I played mp3's continuously for 4.5 hours maintining perfect sync the whole time.

I tried to do the same thing from living room to office, but the living room computer has an nforce2 with soundstorm. I really like using the soundstorm to encode stereo sound to 5.1. However, doing so introduces about a 400 ms delay for encode + receiver decode. I tried to adjust the buffer output to esound, but it will always get out of sync after skipping songs, pause, etc. because the buffer sizes are different.

SO, all this will only work if all the soundcards are analog output and all the buffer sizes are the same.

The mechanics are there, but getting this all integrated into Xlobby might be a little work. Just wanted to share my experiences.

Good Luck,
Sean.

keywords: sync synchronized multizone multi zone audio

[jmv]

if this VAC app really can work, this could be a really good solution...could you have Xlobby "sync" by tieing zones to VAC and then have each different zone family run it's own pair of Foobar / VAC? Or is this a one sync family solution....

Steve, is this a great idea or a dead end?

mv

[redondo_se]

You could have multiple sources, each going to a different virtual cables, then have as many repeaters as you want going to different outputs on each VAC. This could all be accomplished with Girder, but it might be difficult to get it to fit into Xlobby's current multizone paradigm.

[rhinoman]

This solution is kinda like an idea i have hatched with relation to a problem I have with the multizone as far as I suspect a lack of resources running 8 ape zones. I thought that perhaps 1 zone being the sync zone pulling one stream form the server and the others just picking up on its stream, whther this is feaseabe from within xlobby though....

[GFORCE]

But wont this render the Seperate Audio Zones useless?

[redondo_se]

But wont this render the Seperate Audio Zones useless?

No, you could have 1 VAC for each zone. Then you use repeaters to pipe from whichever VAC to whichever output you want. Like I said, this doesn't really work with Xlobby's current multizone paradigm, but it could be done with girder. Or, if Steve felt like it, he could incorporate it directly into Xlobby. One downside is that VAC isn't free.

Sean.

[GFORCE]

well steve has already developed the multizone system this far, it would be alot of hassles to drop it and start a new one. especially there would be a lot of pissed off users

[rhinoman]

I see no reason for the multizone to be developed in this way unless syncroised play cannot be acheived any other way.

[redondo_se]

I see no reason for the multizone to be developed in this way unless syncroised play cannot be acheived any other way.

Haven't you stated that you've had problems maintaining sync with the current multizone implementation?

Sync Issues

well steve has already developed the multizone system this far, it would be alot of hassles to drop it and start a new one. especially there would be a lot of pissed off users

Like I said, this can all be set up with girder and some Xlobby buttons. I only posted it as a suggestion. That's why I posted it under Tips/Tricks, not feature requests. Feel free to ignore the knowledge if you so choose.

Sean.

[rhinoman]

Yes I did state that I am having problems but this is also something that Steven is currently trying to fix. I cannot see him wanting to go this methos unless it cannot be acheived using the current layout.

[redondo_se]

FYI, a new application was just released that includes a full version of Virtual Audio Cable for $18.99, as apposed to buying VAC by itself for $30. I'm not in anyway related to either application.

muvaudio

[CiXel]

And what program would this be that includes VAC?

[redondo_se]

And what program would this be that includes VAC?

It's called muvaudio. I posted a link to it in my last post, but it isn't real prevelant, sorry about that. Let's try again.

Here's the link:
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
muvaudio
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[CiXel]

Thanks... sorry...
Looked like a sig