n00b multi zone questions

[plasmicmike]

So, I've searched for a bit on 'multizone' and read through a bunch of articles where everyone is saying "multizone is easy" but never really explaining it. So here are my questions, please forgive them:

1) I understand outputting 3+ zones from a computer using multiple cards or the soundblaster, but what do you do with those outputs? I'm assuming they go from the computer to a 6+channel amp, to speakers? The amp volume is set to full and xlobby controls the output volume on the PC?

2) Here's my big problem - I guess I'm not understanding what a touch panel is - is this a fully functioning PC with just a touch screen? Do I need a full tablet like PC to control each zone? How does Xlobby get loaded on to this and configured? Can someone post an example of one? Are they just like these:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=591721

3) Are there keypad options? How about small LCD (like 3-5") options?

4) Can I control multiple zones from a single location? I might want to turn off the kitchen when I'm in bed and vice versa, for example. Again, if it can - how? whats the hardware configuration?

I guess that's the real point I'm not understanding - the hardware configuration. I've installed xLobby locally on my pc, and I understand how it works locally, but that's it.

Thanks,
Mike

[hjackson]

1) If you have an amp like this one http://www.htd.com/12channelamp.html, then yes. If you use an amp that requires IR control, then you would use a USB IR device like the USBUIRT to control your amp(s) (ie. on/off, volume, input)

2) The touch panel is just a remote control aka client. It controls the Xlobby on your main PC aka server. There are several types of devices you can use for the client. The client device can be a PC, PDA (ie Ipaq), or any device that has a web browser. Somehow, the client will have to be able to communicate with the server. This is done either through your home network (wired or wireless) or through the internet. There are 3 types of clients. A thin client (this will either be a PDA or PC. It runs a tiny program linking it to Xlobby on the server), a fat client (this would be a PC. It runs a full version of Xlobby, but controls the music coming out of the server PC instead of itself) and a webclient (this will be any device that has a webbrowser. This works like a thin client but you don't install any software on it)
You can either have the client mirror (aka mimic) everything you would see on the server PC screen, or just have the client control Xlobby on the server such as clicking the "play" button on the client and then the movie plays ON THE SERVER PC (not on the client)
If all your music zones are hooked up to the main Xlobby server PC, then you can control the music in each zone from the server. This means that you can also control the music in each zone with the client, since the client can control the server! In fact, this is what I do. I have 6 zones. I have that 12 channel amp hooked up to my server with multiple external soundcards. I can use my Ipaq as a client and control any music zone, from anywhere in my house (or outside, as long as I don't leave my wifi hotspot!) OR, I can get on a PC at work, surf to my home xlobby URL, and turn on and off my zones from work. Hell I could do it from Japan as long as I had an internet connection!
OK, I may have strayed a bit. You really need to read the Help section where they very clearly explain how to do this. It's not difficult. For a regular thin-client, you just have to make sure .Net is installed on the client PC/PDA, and then transfer over a file folder to the client. After typing in the IP address of your server in the new file on your client, you're pretty much ready to go.

hjackson

[btrcp2000]

Here's something I'm going to try this winter. Right now, Kmart is clearing out the 5" lcd screens for playstations for $13. Below is a thread that will suck you into this whole mess just like me.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=495729

Here is a small overlay kit that should be able to turn it into a touch screen:

http://www.digitalww.com/56TSK.htm

Here is a usb extender to get the touchscreen connected to the pc over the long haul:

http://froogle.google.com/froogle_clust ... &scoring=p

My thought is to set this up upstairs so that part of the house can be its own zone with control, to the HTPC downstairs.

If it works, I might do it somehwre else too. Disclaimer- none of this is even in my possession (except the screen), let alone up and running, so I've got no idea if it's even possible. But it will keep me company during the cold crapola Ohio winter.

Not to hijack your thread, but if this is what you're thinking, let's keep the discussion going and maybe we can both get it up and going.

[rika]

Good links!!!
Rika

[btrcp2000]

thanks, rika! glad i could be a giver instead of a taker for once.

Here's a better (cheaper) option for usb:

http://www.pccables.com/cgi-bin/orders6 ... com&rcode=

[/url]

[plasmicmike]

Here is a usb extender to get the touchscreen connected to the pc over the long haul:

http://froogle.google.com/froogle_clust ... &scoring=p

My thought is to set this up upstairs so that part of the house can be its own zone with control, to the HTPC downstairs.

What about the VGA signal? In your case are you just using your host computer's multi monitor support to add a 'zone' ? My thought was that each zone had to have a full client which would communicate back to the server.

As I'm pricing out touch screens / touch computers this xlobby solution is looking to be rather expensive compared to a russound type system. All I'm really interested in is distributed music - if I can add lighting to that, great, but not required.

-Mike

[btrcp2000]

oh yeah forgot to mention vga:

http://www.myhometheater.homestead.com/vgacable.html

this guy explains how to make a vga cable out of a cat5, supposedly for up to 50ft and easy to feed through a cold air retuir, which is my only option.

my concern revolves around cost too, that's why i'm going with one pc and multimonitor as opposed to a full second client. already have enough 'puters around here (or too many if you ask wifey)

[hjackson]

Have you guys considered a cheap PDA with wifi. It's much easier and more portable than a wired touchscreen. Years ago, I looked into the Russound system. It is useless compared to Xlobby and a simple client/server setup (PDA as the client). As well, for 1/4 the price of a Russound system, you can get a 12 channel amp to distribute your music. With the Russound there is NO WAY to browse your music. What the freak is the utility of an inwall keypad that lets you navigate a song if you can't tell what song or album your at? Do you walk up to your keypad with a book that has your music cataloged in it, so you can pick your tracks by number? And I don't want to walk up to the wall to control my system. That's the whole reason why we have remote controls, so we don't have to walk up to a device to control it. The only benefit to an inwall keypad compared to a handheld remote is that a keypad looks cool on the wall.

hjackson

[btrcp2000]

thought about that, but it still seemed expensive with having to purchase a pda. although supposedly sam's club has some ipaq's w/ wifi for $250, saw that the other day on fatwallet or slickdeals..

granted my touchscreen idea will run me $108+, but that's still cheaper than the pda, and it can't walk away and get lost in the couch cushions. i have a pocketpc phone that i use for the thin client, but i want something that will always be there.

[plasmicmike]

I've been trying to dig deeper into a bunch of systems - Charmed Quark, Main Lobby, and XLobby - as compared to a Niles / Russound / Elan system. I'm starting to understand them all (I think).

My original budget was 2k for a 'whole house' audio system w/o speakers. I want in wall touch screens as control so that I can see what I'm listening to and easily navigate to other albums / playlists. Xlobby is a perfect fit. Russound / Elan / Niles / Xantech quickly go around 5k for a 6 zone system with a media player and 6 propriatary touch screens.

The PDA in a docking cradle might be the way I end up going. I do *NOT* want a 15" touchscreen as a controller in my master bathroom. I really want something like a 6-8" controller, but it seems like 6-8" touch screens are a min of 2x the cost of the 15". I really want something in the wall though, with no wires exposed.

Here's a question - how many monitors can XP support? If I was to go the touch screen route (not a tablet, not a PDA, just vga runs back to my server) am I limited to a 2 zone system per xlobby master controller?

Oh and another question - how would you add a tuner (for just regular air radio) to xlobby?

I am *so* overwhelmed with all of this. I think I'll just go buy a cheap PDA and start playing with Xlobby for a while on my PC.

-Mike

[hjackson]

Plasmicmike, how are your zone speakers set up? Do you have inwall speakers that are wired back to a central zone?
BTW, the Xenarc and Liliput small factor touchscreen monitors are pretty popular: http://www.logicsupply.com/default.php/cPath/52 , but I think you will find a PDA easier to implement.
What type of tuner were you planning on using?

hjackson

[plasmicmike]

I have nothing right now - so I'm open to just about any ideas. I'm planning on in ceiling speakers in the master bath to start. What the overall plan is is to wire all the speakers back to some central location, along with cat 5 (or whatever) for keypads etc. I like the pda idea, but I really don't want to have to recharge it etc. Does anyone have a wall mount for a PDA?

If it's any consolation to all my questions, once I get involved I'm hoping to be very helpful. I'm a programmer by trade and decent with photoshop.

I guess I'm just going to go ahead and order that 12 channel amp you recommend, some ceiling speakers, and a PDA. I'll just have some faith that it'll come together

-Mike

[plasmicmike]

Just wondering - can a PDA recieve IR? I guess what I"m asking is can I have a PDA and use a remote to 'control' it? I'm just interested in the most basic of functionality - volume and track. My thought is that I'll start a playlist on the PDA when I jump i nthe shower, but sometimes wnat to lower the volume or skip a track - but I don't want to get out of the shower or bring the PDA in with me.

Thanks,
Mike

[rbziggy]

Well, Vol control is pretty easy, you can get speaker level volume controls (wall mounted) that can be wired in line with your speaker cable.

Won't do skip a track this way tho'

Also, I found the original sticking point for me was the cost of a good 12 channel poweramp. Eventually, I picked up a Russound unit v cheap on ebay. But doing it again I'd be tempted to look at the Sonic Impact T amp (get one per stereo channel). Just google for info.

I use a setup much as you are thinking of:

- Node 0 PC running XL and holding MP3 collection.
- Soundblaster with 3 stereo pairs (zones in XL) using the KX Project driver software.
- Line out from soundcard to above poweramp in node 0
- In ceiling speakers wired back to node 0 poweramp
- XL controlled using ppc clients over wireless

- I also have a digital DAB radio (in UK) that feeds back into the soundcard line in and can be fed to any/all of the zones. This is controlled using a USBUIRT direct from XL itself.

I leave the ppcs sitting in their cradle. Keeps them charged, convenient and they can usually be used in situ.

All works very nicely

[rbziggy]

For the bathroom you could use IR receivers wired back to a USBUIRT (it's a receiver and transmitter) that could then do the basic functions you mention.

I think you would need to use something like the Xantec IR receiver/distribution systems (there are cheaper versions) plus a waterproof IR handset. Wire it in when you do the speaker cable runs.

Great idea - I have the same issue and don't like taling a pda into the bathroom.