if it would be up to u...

[P3rv3rt B3ar]

WTF! somebody still casting votes... all bets were in already on friday... fatlady is having soar throat by now!

[sdumas]

I just got the LG Super Multi Blue GGC-H20L which plays Bluray, HDDVD and every other single format known to date. It is possible to upgrade the firmware, so anything new on that side "should" be covered.

For $250 it's a steal. A comparable dedicated player is $1,200.

So far with AnyDVD, I can play any Bluray or HDDVD title. The only player on this side of the pond to play these discs is PowerDVD Ultra. You have to stick with an "older" version to play from hard drives, as the newer PowerDVD versions have "locked" that feature. PowerDVD Ultra 7.3 will play from hard drives Bluray and HDDVD, but not later versions. On the other side of the pond there is a Japanese Player that does play Bluray and HDDVD from hard drive, but no english version yet, and since my japanese is quite deficient, I'll stick with PowerDVD Ultra.

I don't think that the was is quite over, but it does seems that Bluray has a distinct advantage so far. Who would know that Sony could win something in a format war; remember Beta, MiniDisc, VMD...

[dalanik]

Exactly! When has something made and promoted by SONY won? (I'd add memory stick to the list)

[Marbles_00]

I wonder in order to stay alive, HD-DVD will cave to public pressure and scrap DRM, or in the very least back off and alow personal backups. Nobody in their right minds thinks its good anyways. People will start to flock back over forcing Blu-Ray backers to either drop DRM as well, or risk loosing revenue...eventually switching sides.

Yeah, this may not be quite over yet, though the game is in the third period, Blu-Ray out on top...HD-DVD trying to tie the game...much like the contest between Canada and Sweden for the gold medal game at the World Junior Hockey...If you don't know...the Swedes tied it up with just 45 sec. left (but like usual...Canada came out on top )...that ones for you P3rv...oh wait...what happened to the Finnies?

[P3rv3rt B3ar]

Exactly! When has something made and promoted by SONY won? (I'd add memory stick to the list)

Hmm u guys heard such formats like Compact Disc or Digital Audio Tape im just guessing but arent those two formats like 90% of all recorded audio of all time, on both consumer and professional side?

Its not that im particular sony fanboy but they have tradition to make totally awesome innovative products like glasstron and aibo to mention just two. unfortunately both these awesome product lines have been discontinued... pearls for the swines

[P3rv3rt B3ar]

Yeah, this may not be quite over yet, though the game is in the third period, Blu-Ray out on top...HD-DVD trying to tie the game...much like the contest between Canada and Sweden for the gold medal game at the World Junior Hockey...If you don't know...the Swedes tied it up with just 45 sec. left (but like usual...Canada came out on top )...that ones for you P3rv...oh wait...what happened to the Finnies?

Ohh i totally missed lion cubs... well i guess i didnt miss much. Oh yeah thats called swedish trick and they always manage to pull it on us... lion is strong but apparently not the smartest animal in zoo cause we always fall for that year after year... its so pathetic really. Again as usual my canadian quarter breaks loose and starts celebrate

[sdumas]

... The Compact Disc was brought on by... Philips, not Sony. The DAT is in my opinion not a widely accepted format, who has a DAT reader at home?

In the case of Beta, Sony made the mistake of being too exclusive. The format was 40% better than VHS and it was smaller. They limited the distribution to three manufacturers for their players (Sony, Toshiba and Sanyo). They wanted to control that market. It backfired big time. VHS has lousy quality but you could record 6 hours of unwatchable programming on it... VHS was adopted by all the other manufacturers (JVC being one of the major one, but Panasonic, RCA and a bunch of other were behind the format) and even if the quality was not as good it was omnipresent which Beta was not. VHS won.

Minidisk - I know of about one person who bought into the idea. Cool idea, but again too monolithic. I think that Sony learned by their mistake and introduced Bluray in a much better fashion into the market. They finally got it right. Sony makes me think of Apple. They have great ideas but can't grasp the upper hand of the market because they are too exclusive and proprietary. Even if the PC is not as "great/cool" as a Mac, it is so open that you can't possibly miss in a mass market. Everyone stands to make money building for a PC, ... only a select few can say the same for a Mac. Same thing for MiniDisk, the Memory Stick, the Betamax, only a select few could make money out of it. look at the iPhone, it's great, but only from AT&T, they block the "hacking" so customers can't connect to another network... bad idea, bad idea...

Don't get me wrong, Sony has a lot of great ideas, but they have to learn how to bring to market it in a way that is stable, affordable and sustainable. Bluray may be their winning horse. It looks like they are getting it right. Lots of players out there, lots of partnership with movie studios, lots of momentum, it may just work for them.

[sdumas]

Oh by the way, I used to be a proud owner of a Sony Beta player, a LaserDisc player, a Sony MiniDisk player. Thank god, I did not buy into the DIVX CD format (bad idea...not the current DIVX codec, but the DIVX players where a CD could only be played once or twice, then it would self-destruct...), I did not get into the CED (another Laserdisc format in a jacket where you could play movie like a regular record player with a needle... yikes) I got close though, and countless of other gadgets I bought at ridiculous prices when they came out, just because I wanted one first....

Oh well - one never learns... but it's so much fun to be on the bleeding edge...

[sdumas]

I forgot, I also used to own an Intellivision.... they were so much more "in" then the Atari or the Colecovision... LOL.

[cmhardwick]

gadgets I bought at ridiculous prices when they came out, just because I wanted one first

I know what you mean. I still have an open real tape recorder and until a few years ago, my $400 single disk CD player

[P3rv3rt B3ar]

... The Compact Disc was brought on by... Philips, not Sony. The DAT is in my opinion not a widely accepted format, who has a DAT reader at home?

I have to disagree on u with both acounts... Yeah i omitted the part that philips had their role to play in conceiving CD, but i was aware about it, sure who wouldnt its not like they ever forget to mention it... i can understand them though, cause only other thing they could take credit for is what? lady shaver?? They mated up with sony to give birth for CD, but u dont have to trust me, just go check your sources, after all i was only a cub back at the time.

Speaking about philips though... thats about as crappy it gets IMHO... ive had few of their shit over the years... and not only dont they last very long but each philips contraption is for sure to ship without logic.

That reminds me anybody have DCC player at home? Digital compact cassette it was i think, yeah philips got too cocky after CD and thought people would buy any sh1t with "compact" in its name. Put they sure did push it, DCC almost took them down. Unless u r more familiar with DCC, could we agree sonys DAT as winner of that war? Even though DAT is not in every home like DCC should be, it did rather well in professional segment of audio gear market dont u think. Certainly its still in use today, thats awfully lot more we can say about DCC.

But yeah i have to agree with u guys Sony has mayby more defunt formats than any other company in business... what were they smoking when they came up with name for El Cassette... i mean seriously... wondering why that format flopped

EDIT: Now that im doing a little bit reading... it turns out that sony dumped el casettes here in funland after they flopped ... boy have times changed since then

Keep your used uranium rods coming... we sure wait them here at dumpyard of the world... care for some radioactive reindeer for exchange? No need to tell kids that rudolps nose glow aint exactly due because of healthy doze of finlandia but is actually green...

hmmm mayby that explains the firesale of HD-DUDs other day

[sdumas]

P3rv3rt B3ar, we are both right... Philips and Sony worked on this together. Here is an excerpt of the history of the CD...

"The compact disc is a successful spin-off of the much less successful Laserdisc technology. In 1979, Sony and Philips Consumer Electronics set up a joint task force of engineers to design a new digital audio disc. The task force, led by prominent members Kees Immink and Toshitada Doi, progressed the research into laser technology and optical discs that had been started by Philips in 1977.[2] After a year of experimentation and discussion, the taskforce produced the Red Book, the Compact Disc standard. Philips contributed the general manufacturing process, based on video LaserDisc technology. Philips also contributed Eight-to-Fourteen Modulation (EFM), which offers both a long playing time and a high resilience against disc defects such as scratches and fingerprints, while Sony contributed the error-correction method, CIRC. The Compact Disc Story,[3] told by a former member of the taskforce, gives background information on the many technical decisions made, including the choice of the sampling frequency, playing time, and disc diameter. According to Philips, the Compact Disc was thus "invented collectively by a large group of people working as a team."[4]

The first Compact Disc for commercial release rolled off the assembly line on August 17, 1982, at a Philips factory in Langenhagen, near Hanover, Germany. The first title released was ABBA's The Visitors (1981).[5] CDs and Sony's CD player CDP-101 reached the market on October 1, 1982 in Japan, and early the following year in the United States and other markets. This event is often seen as the "Big Bang" of the digital audio revolution. The new audio disc was enthusiastically received, especially in the early-adopting classical music and audiophile communities and its handling quality received particular praise. As the price of players sank rapidly, the CD began to gain popularity in the larger popular and rock music markets. The first artist to sell a million copies on CD was Dire Straits, with their 1985 album Brothers in Arms.[6]

The CD was originally thought of as an evolution of the gramophone record, rather than primarily as a data storage medium. Only later did the concept of an "audio file" arise, and the generalising of this to any data file. From its origins as a music format, Compact Disc has grown to encompass other applications. In June 1985, the CD-ROM (read-only memory) and, in 1990, CD-Recordable were introduced, also developed by Sony and Philips."

And the inventor of the Compact Disc is a guy named James Russell:
Here is a link to his contribution.
http://inventors.about.com/gi/dynamic/o ... ssell.html

I also have to agree with you with Philips bringing their own "great ideas / not so great products" onto the market. It's almost like Xerox who were the first to have a colour computer monitor and the mouse, but thought that there were no market for them... What's worse; having a great idea and a lousy product, or, having a great product and no way to bring it to market...

[sdumas]

For those interested in the Beta - VHS format war, here is a story that depicts the Rise and Fall of Beta.

http://www.betainfoguide.com/RiseandFall.htm

One interesting note on Sony's "I want it all and I am right" attitude is the following comment from a top executive about features needed on a Betamax player:

“We think adding remote pause to our video recorder would be a mistake. People might over — use it and create technical problems, wearing out their video heads too soon. No. This would be a bad idea.”

[P3rv3rt B3ar]

Yeah, this may not be quite over yet,

Im sure by now even Marbles cant be in denial anymore... surely hes busy playing Motorstorm on his daughters bd-present (double meaning intensional)

And for everybody else heres bears free tip for your survival manual for the next format war: Watch out which side paramount chooses. Choose the opposite one.

Back in DVD vs DIVX... disney and paramount supported DIVX... Disney learned their lesson and stick steady on the winning side from the beginning of this war... and paramount... well paramount was the only passenger to board titanic after it had hit the iceberg.

[P3rv3rt B3ar]

Now its officially over... Toshiba just gave up.

and heres bears official Ha-Haa (in voice of nelson) for all red HD-DUD zuckers and freaking AVS-forums!!!!!!