Media Server Setup

[chadwolcott]

You can do it if you use dynamic volumes in windows, but since it is a 32-bit limitation I don't think you can work around it. I could be wrong, let me do some checking

[chadwolcott]

Just to throw a little more confusion into the mix. You can utilize software RAID-5 in windowsXP (in addition to the 2003 Server where it's standard). Performance isn't up to the hardware version but should be ok for file serving. THG has an article on how to "hack" XP to enable the feature.

http://www6.tomshardware.com/storage/20041119/index.html

[Groover]

Chad, Rhinoman - does that 2.1TB limit apply to only one array using one controller card? Can another card be added to add another array with the same amount of storage? I read on one site up to 4 cards could be used in one system. Naturally I don't want to have to run several puters just to HD base our DVD collection.

Does this 2.1TB limit apply to all storage? For instance, what happens if I added 3x1TB units - will the puter recognise all the space, or does the system die?

Chad - that Windows RAID 5 link was interesting - definitely a cheaper alternative. I saw a 12 way card here in NZ for $1800 - which made me sit up and take notice! That hot drive connection sounds like a good idea.

I figured encoding to a more compressed video format would be time consuming - not worth it in my mind - I'd rather just pay for the extra storage and use any spare time watching movies. I am thinking 4TB would do the deed, as our collection is still growing and I want to have room to grow.

For interest - anyone know what software/setup the Kaleidescape machines run? I think they are using a modified RAID 4, but not sure how it's all setup to achieve the storage expansion they have.

Rhinoman - is there is reason you use a different computer for Xlobby as opposed to just using a server for everything?

Groover

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I need more storage in my head just to keep track of all this stuff!!

[rhinoman]

I use 3 cards in my server, 1 with 2.1tb asnd the other 2 with 0.9tb each so thst works ok.

I started off with just one server but using 2*delta 410's for 8 xlobby zones meant that the music got interrupted when data was being written to the array (It was omly 1 array at the time). I tried a faster processor (a 2.8 prescott) and a gig of ram but it made little difference, I guess that the pci bus was getting saturated.

Do consider that I am using cheap raid cards which do not have ther own processor, all of the raid calculations are being done by the servers processor which I have found to be adequate for a media server, these things only really get filled up or written to once. Its also almost as cheap to build a seperate machine as to buy one of the raid cards that have there own processor like Chads.

Since splitting xlobby off to its own machine it means it never gets rebooted (handy with power amps connected to the delta 410's) and the music is not interrupted by saving a woird doc. The xlobby server in this configuration has the 2.8 prescott and a gig of ram which allows 3 ppc clie nts to all be connected and make synced play possible (if not quite perfect). For radio I use a tuner via a soundcard input via winamps shoutcast to broadcast on the local lan, again running on this machine.

[jowaldo]

baddabing and chad:

what cases are those you are using for your disk arrays, and how much were they if you don't mind me asking?

[chadwolcott]

I'm using a 3U supermicro rackmount http://www.supermicro.com/products/chassis/3U/933/SC933T-R760.cfm

I believe I paid close to $900 for it. There are 15 hot-swap SATA bays with backplane. Triple redundant 760 Watt P/S and 6 fans

[jowaldo]

man i bet that is a loud one..

we have some boxes similar to that here at work.. and they are LOUD

I wish I could afford something like that right now, but I need to put my money into finishing up the theater room itself

I might just add a 250gb drive or two to my existing htpc for now.

[Groover]

John - I'm glad to hear I can run more than 2.1TB off of one machine. Also, that's a good bit of info about data being written to the drive and causing a hiccup. I suppose that would mean it is better to have the movie array separate from the TV recording array/music side of things. How many music zones can you run simutaneously - all 8? Do you consider a 2.8Mhz/IGb RAM setup is sufficient for a HTPC. For some reason I have a tic toward using a dual CPU machine. I figure with two CPU's several things could be happening at the same time without any drama - well that was the thought. Unfortuantely, I'm no real computer wiz - know enough to be dangerous and that's about it. A lot of the more technical stuff is way over my head - but every post gets me a little bit more knowing.

Chad - Does that rack allow more than one array - reading your previous post again I figured all your drvies are in there - so I guess that would answer my question.

Groover

[rhinoman]

My xlobby server is seperate also from my htpc, in this application I find this more suitable although maybe not entirely necessary, it all depends what you are going to ask of it. Seperate streams to manmy zones is reasonable easy, the issue I had was getting the zones even close to in sync, the 2.4 celron just couldn't cope, it just ended up a mess with a couple of the zones sounding like a record was stuck in the groove. The 2.8 Prescott seems to cope ok but if that was the HTPC and was trtying to pull a highdef film and feed it tgo my pj I'm sure it would be insufficent.

A 2 cpu machine might work in principle but as I understand it, the software needs to be written in such a way as to take advantage of the 2 cpu's. With the increase in cost of multi cpu's, dyual socket mobos etc the its possible just as pertinient to have multiple machines if you can accomadate them. My file server and xlobby server are both in a rack in the garage, the HTPC is in the main listening/watching room.

[chadwolcott]

Groover,

The anwr to your question is yes. The arrays are controlled by the array controller or controllers in my case. I have 3 separate arrays in that machine. 2 on the 3ware controller (RAID-5 and RAID-0) and 1 RAID-1 on the on-board adaptec controller

[smeehrrr]

A while ago I decided to go with an "all ripped" DVD solution, and I've actually ended up building multiple backend servers to deal with it. Instead of doing one massive machine, I've so far built 4 servers using Antec mid-tower cases that hold about 10 drives each. I use whatever motherboard is cheap, and the cheapest processor I can get from Newegg, which has typically been a Duron. I put 250GB drives into these boxes, and so far I'm up to about 6.5TB of content online. The servers typically run me about $300 plus the cost of the drives.

I keep these things in S3 standby when they're not in use and only wake up the single server that's holding the content I currently want to view, so I get a savings in power and in extended drive life by keeping everything else essentially powered down. It also cuts down on the noise and the heat. The servers wake when they get LAN activity, so I don't need to do anything special to wake them up, just hit them and start pulling content. I use DFS mount points on my domain controller to make it look like all my DVDs are stored in a single directory on a single server, DFS does the work of figuring out what is where and redirecting my HTPCs to the correct server.

I don't do any kind of RAID, I have all the content on these things on DVD already so I don't need backups and don't mind reripping if a drive fails. This gives me a good cost savings in drives over a RAID solution at the cost of some of my time wasted when a drive dies, which hasn't happened yet.

[Groover]

smeehrrr -

I use DFS mount points on my domain controller to make it look like all my DVDs are stored in a single directory on a single server, DFS does the work of figuring out what is where and redirecting my HTPCs to the correct server.

Sounds like a great setup. What is a DSF mount point - I looked it up quickly but it didn't make any sense to me.

I wish I could built a machine in NZ for $300. What are your response times like from the time you hit the movie play button until the machine actually delivers the content? Do the cheap MB's and CPU affect system speed?

Putting the drives to sleep was another question I was going to ask in this post, but getting on the puter is difficult at times with real busy days at present. When you wake up the server with the content, do all the drives in that server spin up or just the one with the content?

Thanks Groover

[dalanik]

And what OS do you have on the servers?

[smeehrrr]

DFS is Distributed File System - it's a feature in the Windows server line. It basically acts as a link to a remote share. So I have a directory on my root server (which runs Windows Server 2003) that has what looks like a whole bunch of subdirectories, but in fact each one is just a redirection to a share on another machine.

So, for example, \\root-server\dvd\The Godfather redirects to \\media-two\dvd14\The Godfather.

The machines drop one ping before they start serving packets. It probably takes ten seconds or less before they start serving content. The motherboards and CPU don't appear to have any effect whatsoever on the speed at which they push bits onto the wire, I suspect that's entirely gated on the speed of the IDE controller and the NIC at this point.

All the drives spin up at once, I don't think there's any way in Windows to send power only to certain drives. If someone knows a way, I'd be very interested to hear it.

I run Windows Server 2003 on the root server (which is also my domain controller) and Windows XP Pro on the media servers themselves. XP Pro is more than adequate for serving files like this and it's much cheaper than Server.

[Groover]

DFS is Distributed File System - it's a feature in the Windows server line. It basically acts as a link to a remote share. So I have a directory on my root server (which runs Windows Server 2003) that has what looks like a whole bunch of subdirectories, but in fact each one is just a redirection to a share on another machine.

Is this DFS only in Windows Server? Do you really need several servers setup this way? Would XP Pro do the whole job? Did your case have enough power cables for 10 drives?

XP Pro here in NZ is almost $300 for an OEM version. The only cheaper version is the student variety - but you have to produce student ID. Is ther any benefit of XP pro over the Home Edition?