Multizone audio question

[dgpretzel]

Looking over the features page, I see the following (edited quote) about multizone audio...

There are a couple of ways to do multizone audio with xlobby. One can use the sound card(s) in multiple computers... each sound card will become a "zone" that will be controlled through xlobby. For example, ...lets say you wanted to have one song playing in every room at the exact same time....you can do that too.

(Hope rising) This sounds like synchronized network distribution of digital audio. I.e., synchronized transmission of TCP/IP packets over my ethernet connection; as opposed to distributing analog audio via speaker-level or line-level audio cables running everywhere.

1) Am I understanding this correctly?

2) How is this magic performed? I mean without an explicit clock signal, how is the very, very precise timing maintained? I realize there are network time protocols, but can they keep a millisecond-by-millisecond level of precision? Or maybe some buffering is involved. Or is it proprietary technology? Or did I misinterpret the Feature?

This sounds amazing.

Thank you.

DG

[hjackson]

No, its distributed analog NOT distributed TCP/IP packets over a network.

hjackson

[dgpretzel]

Thank you for your rapid reply.

Is this really an "impossible dream"? Is there a way to do it? Is it a future Xlobby possibility?

Would you clarify a little on the current situation, please? How are sound cards in multiple computers used to play the same thing at the same time? For instance, suppose I have 3 computers, each with a sound card. What kind of connections would I need to use Xlobby to have all three play the same thing, in sync? Would I need to run wire from analog, line-level out of one to line-level in, of another, etc.? In other words, do I need to make a complete analog daisy-chain through all my sound cards (on different machines)?

Thank you for any further comments.

DG

[hjackson]

My current set up uses multiple EXTERNAL soundcards on one PC. The set up can also be done with multiple INTERNAL soundcards or one multichannel (ie 7.1 soundcard where the channels can be reconfigured) soundcard. I use analog speaker wire out from my soundcard (my external ones have a built in amp) to my speakers, and also analog line-level (RCA left and right connections) out from my internal card to my stereo. You can also use digital out from your cards but I have not done this.
A new feature called XNET is also being polished up, which allows for more complex connections, but not TCP/IP from what I understand. I've seen talk of what you are hoping for (that is a TCP/IP packet solution) and there is a hardware solution, and I don't remember it being cheap...

hjackson

[Burnate]

hjackson,

Your speaker setup caught my attention when I saw your post. What kind of external cards are you using? How are the speakers attached ie. are they like pc speakers and attach with a mini jack or do they attach like regular bare wire sterio speakers?

I am in the process of building my first HTPC and the multizone audio is what drew me to XL.

Thanks
Burnate

[hjackson]

I use Griffin's PowerWave devices ( http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/powerwave/ ). They have a built in 20 watt amp with an extension to attach your regular non-powered speakers (ie regular bare wire stereo speakers) I use them for my inwall speakers. Yamaha made an external soundcard/amp combo a couple of years ago, but they were stereo receiver big and are no longer available. Several people have searched, but there doesn't seem to be any other external soundcard/amp combos out there! Bizarre!! The Powerwave is an always on device and uses a 12 volt supply. Ofcourse, you could power this on and off with an X10 power switch...
BTW, 20 watts is good for regular listening but is definetly not concert level loud.

hjackson

[stevenhanna6]

For instance, suppose I have 3 computers, each with a sound card. What kind of connections would I need to use Xlobby to have all three play the same thing, in sync?

All three computers would have to be on the same network using a router, each would have an installation of xlobby. One would be the master server the others would be fat clients that connect to the master. This is done through the XNET tab in setup. Once the machines are registered on xnet you can control any of the playlist on each machine from any of the machines on xnet....you can also synch them to the same song/playlist. XNET is something new, so its pretty buggy right now. You also have to make sure you import your music from a network location like \\home theater\music\ so the clients know where the music is.

[Burnate]

hjackson

Thanks for the info, I can't wait to try it out!

Burnate

[summerall]

I'm trying to decide now between an internal sound card and something like hjackson is using (griffin powerwaves).

My receiver has the ability to support 3 zones so I am thinking of getting a sound card with digital out and sending it to my reciever. My receiver would then control the zones.

Any reasons why I would want to pick one option over the other?

With the one sound card approach would I be able to sync zones? Play multiple zones at once?

[hjackson]

You would need to have a multichannel internal soundcard where you are able to control the output to each of the different audio out channels. Not all soundcards do this and I forget exactly which ones do but one of the Delta internal card seems to ring a bell... Using the internal soundcard method with your stereo receiver will give you more volume than the 20 watt PowerWaves. The single soundcard receiver setup is a bit more complicated as the configuration for the soundcard can be a bit involved and you have to set up some Xlobby remote control macros (likely with a USB-UIRT) to control the receiver.
Using the PowerWaves is a simple setup as you just plug them in, configure each one for a seprate Winamp instance and your done. They are always on (but shouldn't chew up too much power if they are not playing music) so no complicated remote control macros are needed; just select the zone and they play. PowerWaves are $89 each at http://www.newegg.com . BTW, I see they have some refurbished ones at newegg for $49 each (but I don't know what they mean by OEM, BAREBONE...)!

hjackson

[edgley]

Comes in a white box (no retail packaging) and with no extras (like CD)

[jazzar]

For instance, suppose I have 3 computers, each with a sound card. What kind of connections would I need to use Xlobby to have all three play the same thing, in sync?

All three computers would have to be on the same network using a router, each would have an installation of xlobby. One would be the master server the others would be fat clients that connect to the master. This is done through the XNET tab in setup. Once the machines are registered on xnet you can control any of the playlist on each machine from any of the machines on xnet....you can also synch them to the same song/playlist. XNET is something new, so its pretty buggy right now. You also have to make sure you import your music from a network location like \\home theater\music\ so the clients know where the music is.

Hi
I'm still new to XL and have tried to setup various fat clients using xnet. Have done what it says from the post above and once my music is imported it all seem to work fine,however when I close one of my clients down and restart it there seems to be a problem with the music. No cover art displayed and althought the the tracks seem to be there when i click on an album the don't play. Heres' what Iv'e discovered so far , When I first import my music from my server not using a mapped drive the music.xml file has the paths to my server ,however after closing down and restarting XL my music.xml file shows the paths to the local machine. Here is a sample of my music.xml file after importing.

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<database>
<sortorder>artist:albumname:tracknumber:trackfilename</sortorder>
<template>music</template>
<paths>
<path>\\Jim\jimc\My Documents\My Music</path>
</paths>
<item>
<parameter>\\Jim\jimc\My Documents\My Music\Various Artists\Perfect Day</parameter>
<display>01 Perfect Day &apos;97 / 01 Perfect Day &apos;97</display>
<type>album</type>
<subitems>
<item>
<parameter>\\Jim\jimc\My Documents\My Music\Various Artists\Perfect Day\01 Perfect Day &apos;97.wma</parameter>
<display>01 Perfect Day &apos;97</display>
<type>track</type>
<information>
<tracknumber></tracknumber>
<trackname>01 Perfect Day &apos;97</trackname>
<trackfilename>01 Perfect Day &apos;97.wma</trackfilename>
<artist>01 Perfect Day &apos;97</artist>
</information>
</item>
</subitems>
<information>
<artist>01 Perfect Day &apos;97</artist>
<albumname>01 Perfect Day &apos;97</albumname>
<genre>Pop</genre>
<year></year>
</information>
</item>

And here the same after I restart the client.

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<database>
<sortorder>artist:albumname:tracknumber:trackfilename</sortorder>
<template>music</template>
<paths>
<path>C:\My Documents\My Music</path>
</paths>
<item>
<parameter>C:\My Documents\My Music\Various Artists\Perfect Day</parameter>
<display>01 Perfect Day &apos;97 / 01 Perfect Day &apos;97</display>
<type>album</type>
<subitems>
<item>
<parameter>C:\My Documents\My Music\Various Artists\Perfect Day\01 Perfect Day &apos;97.wma</parameter>
<display>01 Perfect Day &apos;97</display>
<type>track</type>
<information>
<tracknumber></tracknumber>
<trackname>01 Perfect Day &apos;97</trackname>
<trackfilename>01 Perfect Day &apos;97.wma</trackfilename>
<artist>01 Perfect Day &apos;97</artist>
</information>
</item>
</subitems>
<information>
<artist>01 Perfect Day &apos;97</artist>
<albumname>01 Perfect Day &apos;97</albumname>
<genre>Pop</genre>
<year></year>
</information>
</item>

As you can see the paths have changed
Sorry it's a bit long winded ,but can anyone shed any light on this ?

Thanks

AHA Think Iv'e found the problem . My XL server music path was not a unc path ie was C:\\my documents\my music.
As soon as I changed that the client works fine and I don't even have to import on the client.

Thanks

[Devnull]

After reading your thread, I *think* you're asking for multizone audio across multiple PC systems. Another option you may want to explore is an IP broadcast system. I've been running an ice-cast server on my home systems for the past 3 years. You can connect to the server either via a browser, or direct through winamp. You can find it at icecast.org

My setup is a fairly dated linux server running manual playlists, however I believe there are some recent updates that would make a windows based server a little easier to admin.

Cheers!