Which cables would be better for me??

Help each other out

Which cables would be better for me??

Postby scottw on Sat Sep 06, 2008 7:34 pm

I am running a VGA and audio cable from my HTPC to my TV. I will be running the cables from one room to the another thru the wall up into the attic and then back down thru the wall in the other room. The run is around 20ft.

I found 2 cables and need to know which would be best.
The first has the audio and VGA cables seperate but the VGA cable says it's for in wall installation.
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10201&cs_id=1020101&p_id=3621&seq=1&format=2
and
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021802&p_id=646&seq=1&format=2

The second cable has the audio cable with it:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10201&cs_id=1020105&p_id=559&seq=1&format=2

I don't mind the price difference or that one has the audio cable with it, what I do care about is which has better quality. Is the 1st one just as good as the second, if it is that will be my choice since it for in-wall installation.

Thanks for the help!!!
scottw
 
Posts: 774
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 4:21 pm
Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland

Re: Which cables would be better for me??

Postby Marbles_00 on Sat Sep 06, 2008 9:21 pm

Your TV takes a 3.5mm stereo jack input? Never seen that before, usually they're RCA type connections.

Anyways, the difference between the two video cable is that the single one has gold plated connections. Does that really matter? It may if you were dis-connecting/reconnecting often. The gold plated connection may help in connection longevity. But in reality, it most likely won't matter because of how often you plan on making the connection over again. Most likely no more that 5 mate/demates at either end.

The only other difference is that the single VGA cable has ferrite cores at each end, while the combined cable doesn't. So what do the ferrite cores do? Here's a blurb from a site I found:

Some manufacturers put a ferrite core on the video cable to reduce radiated radio emissions from the cable shield. Radio emissions that possibly could interfere with your television or radio reception for example. Even BNC cables sometimes need ferrite cores because it is the outside shield of the cable that acts as the antenna. It depends on how noisy (from a radiated emissions point of view) the video card is. After all it is the video card that is producing the radiated emissions to begin with monitors simply amplify the signal. This is also why some video card manufactures put filters on the output video signals that sometimes reduce 2D performance at higher resolutions.


So it boils down to what video card you have? I've heard of some ATI cards that include a ferrite core kit, so one could be safe to assume that if your card is an ATI you may be better off with the single VGA cable and be done. But then, you have to figure out, if your running that length behind the wall, is there a chance that it could come in close proximity of an AC path?

This would then deem the combined cable the better choice...or is it? Sure it is triple shield, but is the shield tied at both ends? If so, this could add to a potential ground loop. The shield is for sure tied to ground at the HTPC, so in the very least, if the combined cable's shield was tied only at one end, then you'd want to make sure that end went to the HTPC prior to running the cable behind the wall.

In all honesty, I'd go for neither. Run two CAT5e cables (two for future use) and select VGA and an Audio Baluns. This way, if you get better equipment at either end, then you only need to worry about upgrading the Baluns, and not the cable.
Marbles_00
 
Posts: 1867
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:44 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Which cables would be better for me??

Postby scottw on Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:19 pm

Wow Marbles thanks for confusing me even more....just kidding :D

Ok here goes

Marbles_00 wrote:Your TV takes a 3.5mm stereo jack input? Never seen that before, usually they're RCA type connections.


It's a new TV and the plug looks just like a headphone jack...thats 3.5mm right???

Marbles_00 wrote:Anyways, the difference between the two video cable is that the single one has gold plated connections. Does that really matter? It may if you were dis-connecting/reconnecting often. The gold plated connection may help in connection longevity. But in reality, it most likely won't matter because of how often you plan on making the connection over again. Most likely no more that 5 mate/demates at either end.



This should not matter since I will be plugging it in and leaving it.

Marbles_00 wrote:The only other difference is that the single VGA cable has ferrite cores at each end, while the combined cable doesn't. So what do the ferrite cores do? Here's a blurb from a site I found:

Some manufacturers put a ferrite core on the video cable to reduce radiated radio emissions from the cable shield. Radio emissions that possibly could interfere with your television or radio reception for example. Even BNC cables sometimes need ferrite cores because it is the outside shield of the cable that acts as the antenna. It depends on how noisy (from a radiated emissions point of view) the video card is. After all it is the video card that is producing the radiated emissions to begin with monitors simply amplify the signal. This is also why some video card manufactures put filters on the output video signals that sometimes reduce 2D performance at higher resolutions.


So it boils down to what video card you have? I've heard of some ATI cards that include a ferrite core kit, so one could be safe to assume that if your card is an ATI you may be better off with the single VGA cable and be done. But then, you have to figure out, if your running that length behind the wall, is there a chance that it could come in close proximity of an AC path?


I am running near the AC trunk but nothing electrical to do with the AC just the trunk and a return....does that matter???
The cable will be running thru the same wall....up one side and down the other, the computer is just on the other side of the wall.

Marbles_00 wrote:This would then deem the combined cable the better choice...or is it? Sure it is triple shield, but is the shield tied at both ends? If so, this could add to a potential ground loop. The shield is for sure tied to ground at the HTPC, so in the very least, if the combined cable's shield was tied only at one end, then you'd want to make sure that end went to the HTPC prior to running the cable behind the wall.


How would I know which end of the cable the shield is on??

Marbles_00 wrote:In all honesty, I'd go for neither. Run two CAT5e cables (two for future use) and select VGA and an Audio Baluns. This way, if you get better equipment at either end, then you only need to worry about upgrading the Baluns, and not the cable.


Ok I am totally lost on this....do you run the VGA thru Cat5e???


Thanks for your detailed explanation of everything!!!!!
scottw
 
Posts: 774
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 4:21 pm
Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland

Re: Which cables would be better for me??

Postby Marbles_00 on Sun Sep 07, 2008 2:42 am

Marbles_00 wrote:This would then deem the combined cable the better choice...or is it? Sure it is triple shield, but is the shield tied at both ends? If so, this could add to a potential ground loop. The shield is for sure tied to ground at the HTPC, so in the very least, if the combined cable's shield was tied only at one end, then you'd want to make sure that end went to the HTPC prior to running the cable behind the wall.



How would I know which end of the cable the shield is on??


The shield is either tied to the ground pin or the metal sleeving, so basically you would take a DMM and probe each metal sleeving. If you measure 0 ohms, then the shield is tied at both ends. If that is the case, then hope that the shield is not tied at the TV end otherwise you could have ground loop interference issues. Note that I say "could". You may not, but ground loop problems are some of the worst things to figure out.

Ok I am totally lost on this....do you run the VGA thru Cat5e???

Yep, here:
Image

Here are some links to some products:
http://www.smarthome.com/7805VGA.html (where the above image comes from)

http://www.blackboxcanada.ca/Catalog/De ... x?mid=4296

http://www.av-cables.net/baluns/baluns-vga2.html

Stereo audio Balun:
http://www.smarthome.com/7821sa.html

DIY audio balun:
http://sites.google.com/site/maycreates ... er/maybald
(hey....that's looks familiar :wink: )

Even Calrad (though I haven't distinctly searched their site), have many Balun solutions. Wes could help you out more here.

I know, this is a more expensive solution. But think of it like this. Eventually you may upgrade your HTPC, or your TV...one or the other may not have your VGA solutions anymore, as VGA is a analog type signal and you may have eventual problems of displaying HDCP content. Then you will have to pull that VGA cable out...which will be pretty useless for almost any other application because of its length. As mentioned using a couple of CAT5e cables (or better), the cable is in place...you will never have to touch it again, then depending on your source/output requirements, you pick the appropriate Balun. You can get all sorts of Baluns: VGA, HDMI, DVI, Component...all running across CAT5e type cable.
Marbles_00
 
Posts: 1867
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:44 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Which cables would be better for me??

Postby Marbles_00 on Sun Sep 07, 2008 2:45 am

The other advantage of running Baluns, is that they are differential pairs, meaning the signal is transmitted in opposite phases of itself. If noise gets on the line, it is of the same amplitude and phase on each pair. At the receiver end, the signal is muxed together, and since noise is the same amplitude and phase, it will cancel itself out, making for a very clean output signal (my MayBALD site shows input to output scope signals showing this).
Marbles_00
 
Posts: 1867
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:44 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Which cables would be better for me??

Postby wesblack on Sun Sep 07, 2008 4:28 am

Scott,

Everything marbles has outlined is true. If you run standard cables you would have to run component, VGA, HDMI, Display port, 3.5mm or RCA style audio cables to cover every possibility and who knows what future connections will be required. If you have easy access to running this cable or other cables then go with conventional style shielded cables and just adapt your setup to what you need, this would be the most in-expensive route. Since your only going 20 ft. the most important factors for any cable are 85% or better shielding and wire gauge. A good cable must have these properties. If you ever plan to connect a laptop to the VGA port then the VGA cable needs to be PNP (Plug N Play) or otherwise the VGA port on the laptop will not work unless it sees the ID bit of the display.

Calrad does have several Cat5e, Cat6 solutions and yes run at least two Cat5e or Cat6 cables and a spare if you decide to go this route.

See these links:

VGA\Component Video + Audio Balun
http://www.calrad.com/download/40-6110.pdf

HDMI Baluns

http://www.calrad.com/download/40-1070%20ProductSheet.pdf

http://www.calrad.com/download/40-1071%20ProductSheet.pdf

http://xlobby.com/news/2008/06/17/calrad-40-1073-designe-style-balun-hdmi-over-2-cat5e-cables/





Wes Black \ Calrad
Last edited by wesblack on Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
wesblack
 
Posts: 852
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:02 pm
Location: Valencia, Ca

Re: Which cables would be better for me??

Postby Marbles_00 on Sun Sep 07, 2008 4:30 am

Here are some Calrad Baluns:
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=5450

Wes, you beat me too it.
Marbles_00
 
Posts: 1867
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:44 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Which cables would be better for me??

Postby scottw on Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:34 pm

Thanks for the help guys. I decided to try the VGA cable first...it was only $12 (I went for the triple shielded one). Once I get some more money I will go with the Baluns, we have alot of Cat 5 at work that I may be able to use :D

The run should not be that difficult so I will try the cheapest route for now.


Thanks,
scottw
 
Posts: 774
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 4:21 pm
Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland

Re: Which cables would be better for me??

Postby Marbles_00 on Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:44 pm

we have alot of Cat 5 at work that I may be able to use


Just make sure it's CAT5e not CAT5. CAT5e is rated for Gigabit speeds (Gbps) where as CAT5 is only rated for 100Mbps. It is cheaper than CAT6 cable (also rated for Gbps), and most likely good for the next few years. Though you may not need it now (if just watching DVD rips and the sort), when you get into HD content, your better off using CAT5e.
Marbles_00
 
Posts: 1867
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:44 pm
Location: Canada