full house audio zones

[lpg]

They are 6 channel amps. Scott grabbed my extras so I do not have amy more to sell.

[billberet]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
lol
probably better off, i've been spending too much money on my project.
my Gefen video matrix comes tomorrow !!!! woot woot
then the fun begins

[Marbles_00]

so by 3 zones, you mean 3 individual ones plus one zone that will be all the zones playing at same time
giving you the 4 zone total
that is how i want to set up my card.

You can set it up like that, where KX inputs 4/5 is dedicated to one zone, KX inputs 6/7 dedicated to a second zone, KX inputs 8/9 dedicated to a third zone and then use KX inputs 0/1 directed to all the zones for a zone sync...but why think like that? The KX DSP is so much more powerful, and you don't have to confine yourself to that old style of logic. Treat each input as a source, each output as a zone and you have yourself a 4x4 matrix switch. So the outputs that would normally be your Main L/R (1 zone), Rear L/R (2 zone), Center/LFE (3 zone). But these cards, you can also take advantage of the Side Surrounds L/R to for a 4th zone. This way any zone can listen to any source, and any zone can perfectly sync itself with any other zone, provided these zones are on the same soundcard.

Right now, my music server is offline (installing another LPT port card into it so I can get the Maytrix going), so I can't help you further on the K2LT output module. Just when you go into the settings, I think I chose Digital paths as opposed to the analog paths. Once I have the system back up, I can get a screen shot of it and throw it on here.

Oh ya, before I forget, many thanks for the manual LPG.

[Marbles_00]

Actually, my mistake, with the addition of the soundcards line-in input, it is a 5x4 matrix switch, not 4x4.

[billberet]

nice, looks good, i have the KX drivers.
i should be getting the card by end of this week, early next week.

when i install the card, i assume windows will install drivers,
i'll uninstall them, then use the KX drivers.
i will go with this setup

or should i use the Pro Plug- in package and get the individual sources, like you have.
could you please post your kx rar files, so i have the same version you are using. THANKS
i downloaded the latest drivers on the kx download page, there is only one to choose from.
i did not find any pro plug in package.

i'll be working on my video matrix now for a little bit, and i have to wait for my card anyway.
hopefully you'll be up and running again by the time i start this part of the project.
i'll keep you posted if i have any issues.

[Marbles_00]

or should i use the Pro Plug- in package and get the individual sources, like you have.
could you please post your kx rar files, so i have the same version you are using. THANKS
i downloaded the latest drivers on the kx download page, there is only one to choose from.
i did not find any pro plug in package.

The "Pro" stuff is included now within the KX install. So you won't be able to find a seperate "Pro" installer.

Though that DSP setup will work fine for simple zoning (I started with that setup), there are drawbacks to dedicating inputs to zones, so in the end your tying specific winamp instances to zones, and only allowing for one full sync. Here are some scenarios:

1) Your home alone, and working all around the house, and decide to sync all the zones to your music. Your wife comes home and decides that she wants to listen to her favorite Yanni album, so she has to break your sync...all of a sudden your wondering why you have no music.

2) Let's say your listening to some music in one zone, and whatever your doing ends up moving on to another zone, so you want to listen to music there...or your going back and forth between zones. Not a big deal you think...so you save a playlist, turn on "Zone Sync", open playlist in the All Zones instance of winamp, and voila...you now have music in your two zones. But now, add in the fact that your wife...who was quite content listening to her Yanni album in the third zone...all of a sudden is blasted with your AC/DC, just because you wanted to listen to music in two zones, and the only way to do that was to use the Zone Sync.

Scenario 1 would take additional requirements to allow users to break the sync to any specific zone, without effect the other zones. I did this in my Zoneskin3, and had an additional screen that allowed sync control for that purpose, but it was confusing, in my eyes, to the end user (and if I thought it was confusing...damn, I would not even attempt to pass it by the wife).

Scenario 2, though now you have all the additional extra steps to transfer your playlist from an individual zone enviroment to the All Zone enviroment, your wife would still then perform the above step outlined in Scenario 1 to go back and select her music again. Something I don't think she would really appreciate too much.

Remember, I'm just using you and your wife in the scenario. Insert kid's where ever you like and that opens up a whole new can of worms, and just amplifies the above scenarios.

I started to see these limitations by using the DSP you pictured. They were the reasons why I redesigned the DSP to the way I have it pictured and redesigned the xlobby skin to Zoneskin4. This way, instead of a zone being tied to 2 winamp sources (one dedicated to that zone, or the All Sync instance), you have your choice of 4 winamp sources, plus the additional source from the line-in. You can be in two rooms and have them tied to one source, while your wife is listening to her music in another zone...unscathed.

Don't get me wrong, that is a very simplistic way to allow multi-zoning, and works well enough, but the limitations will become very noticable, rather quickly. Also as a side obersvation: your getting a card that is capable of 4 zones, take advantage of that now. You may not need the fourth zone right away, but have it ready so all you will have to do is connect the amp to the soundcard output and your done (will at that end, you still have to worry about speakers....speaker wire, etc.). I say that, as I don't know your floorplan or your intended zones, but better to think about that now, then have to redesign the skin and overall phylosophie of how you want to do multi-zoning.

[billberet]

thanks for taking the time out to explain a few things.

your correct in the zone limitations but i figured i should start small and get a few separate zones working.
by doing this, i get familiar with the program and how the 'virtual' components are linked to each other to get the desired output.
I always believe in the kiss method.

the zones are outside yard, i have 2 speakers mounted to the back of the house by the deck, mood music for jacuzzie
zone 2 is first floor, i'm not going to do kitchen and livingroom separate cause they are so close, you could never listen to different music anyway. zone 3 is the basement, which is my domain, i have the bar and the theater down there.
i can either use the home theater speakers if i want to tap into that. i use the tape in, so it can play with any other input selected.
when i play gears of war 2, i like to have some speed metal playing at same time

wifey don't listen to my music collection cause it's all 80's 90's alternative, hard core, metal, etc
she downloads dance singles, not albums so i don't want them to clutter up my database yet.
i will create a trance category and just put everything in there as a dump and use one cover i can draw up.

knowing this, what setup can you come up with.
what should be the inputs and what components should i add, and volume controls, and mixers, then the output.
FXBus or SRC as the input source, etc.
thanks again Mr. M

[Marbles_00]

Basically read up on my ZoneSkin4 tutorial in the skins section. It is the first half dozen or so posts. It basically explains the DSP, how you should setup your winamp instances, the p3rvTalk ini files. I basically touch on everything required to get a system going. I also include the tutorial in a document with ZoneSkin4. Understanding the DSP is key. Then understanding the p3rvTalk ini files is also really important as they are the glue that ties the DSP to xlobby. Whether or not you use ZoneSkin4 is up to you, but you will be most satisfied using the DSP I have shown. If I get a chance, I will connect the music-server back up and copy the DSP file over for ya and my ini file (can't recall if I include the ini file in ZoneSkin4).

what should be the inputs and what components should i add, and volume controls, and mixers, then the output.
FXBus or SRC as the input source, etc.

Inputs: If your keeping it totally computer based, then you will need 4 instances of winamp. Open each winamp, one at a time, goto its preferences/plugins/output plugins. Either use the Direct Sound or Wavout plugins and select a different KX input for each instance. You will see a selection between KX inputs 0/1, 4/5, 6/7, 8/9. Select one the close that winamp before opening another.

Now, once all that is done you can easily test this by opening all four instances and select different tracks for each, and start playing them. Connect a set of computer speakers to one of the soundcard output jacks. Open the KX DSP then open the mixer you figure is connected to the output jack that you have connected. Move a set of sliders to Max, all other sliders (except for Volume) should be set to Min. You should hear music from one winamp. Do this with each winamp input and verify that you have four different streams. Then do this for each soundcard output.

If you have an external source, you can connect that to the Line-in of the card and set a SCR module to the line-in. Connect that to another mixer input, and you should be able to hear your external source once you set the corresponding sliders. *WARNING* line-in could be very much high in volume, hence the reason that I used a Gain control in my DSP. That lowered the signal to the outputs that would go direct to amps that didn't have some sort of external volume control.

Components: If your planning on adding external components, then you will require some sort of external matrix switch which will allow you to select different devices. Keep in mind that you only have one Line-in, meaning that only one external source can be listened to by all the zones at any given time. The other way is to send the computer outputs as well as other devices to a large matrix switch (ie 8x4 switch) then skies the limit on what source to listen to, to any given zone. This really opens things up...big time. PhilB does something like this I believe.

Volume Controls: Use the FXMixer module as it has a built-in Master Volume that is controllable within xlobby.

Mixers: In the KX DSP use the FXMixer as they are a 6x1 stereo, one mono input with master volume control (just like what I show). All this is controllable within Xlobby using P3rvTalk. The KX 10 Band EQ isn't really required, and as of right now, it is not controllable within Xlobby.

I prefer using SRC modules and the k2lt output module as they require less GPR's (General Purpose Registers) than the default FXBus/Epilog. Not a huge deal with the Audigy cards, but never the less. Also I find them easier to configure, as you make your connection, the open the module and set it to whatever input/output. Whereas you have to make sure you select the proper tabs when using the FXBus/Epilog. Not so much a bid deal with the FXBus, but the Epilog can be pretty confusing when trying to connect to it.

I would strongly recommend that you read the KX DSP for Xlobby document:
http://xlobbystuff.googlepages.com/KXDSP_for_Xlobby.pdf
as it explains the basic functionality of the KX DSP. I will admit though that I have to update it to my current setup, but it should help you out.

Also read the ZoneSkin4 forum thread or download the skin and read the manual.
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=5917

Finally, you have already done, look over my google site on my music distribution, especially the section on SoundCard and Audio Software Configuration, as I summarize how things are setup.

[billberet]

way ahead of ya
i got all the pdf printouts and i'm going thru them as we speak. i spend alot of time on your site too, getting info.
i will have no external inputs, everything is done thru winamp. i'll create the different, separate, winamp configs and point each to a zone.
next week i should have the card and can begin. lots of reading to do

so when are you flying to NY to help me finish my configs? lol
thanks again

[Marbles_00]

winamp configs and point each to a zone

You mean treating each as an individual source and pointing them to a KX input. Zones are only relative to the FXMixer (for Xlobby/PervTalk control) and the k2lt as it connects your FXMixer to the outside world, which will be the amp/speakers in the zone you want to listen to music in.

Unfortunately by xlobby's terminology, each winamp instance is indicated as a zone, so people start thinking this way. But you have to not think of them as zones, but as individual sources. Make sure you label their directories as Source1, Source2, etc, that way when defining them in xlobby, xlobby may indicate they are zones, and you treat the xlobby zoning commands as such, but you will understand that they are sources, and NOT zones. In Xlobby, your zones are defined by the FXMixers. All your doing in xlobby is directing your FXMixer defined zoned to a winamp source. This is one area that I wish I had all that figured out prior to Steven going commercial, then I could have worked with him in changing the terminology in the XLobby/setup that wasn't so restricted to indicating winamp instances as zones.

[billberet]

true,
the winamp kx connection is all done outside of xlobby, and is hardwired to work with one pair of (winamp input, card output)
so i should be able to test the different outputs outside of xlobby, start up one winamp and play, the result should be the correct audio port on the card. test all 4 winamps to their corresponding audio ports.

xlobby's virtual zone will be the specific winamp, which plays to a specific audio port in the card.
after i'm done testing outside of xlobby, then i can work on a skin.
i can't really use your zone skin cause i have touchscreens and the buttons are not big enough.
i don't want anything fancy, just play this cd with this winamp.

[Marbles_00]

i can't really use your zone skin cause i have touchscreens and the buttons are not big enough.

That's interesting to know. I don't have a touch screen but often wondered how this would work on one. Note to self: increase button size.

Look over Zoneskin4...learn it well...especially the P3rvTalk commands, as once you start skinning your own, these commands will be the most difficult to understand. I tried to explain it as best as possible, and there is a huge thread on the kXd, well worth its weight in gold here:
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4714

Hard to grasp, but totally priceless once you do.

[Marbles_00]

Okay here is the screen capture of my k2lt, the KXDSP file that the image I show above is, as well as the P3rvTalk ini file that you will need. You will also have to download ZoneSkin4 as you will require the P3rvhub and kXd files. I think I indicate where to put them.

Just change the kxb400 extension to .kx from .ini.

[P3rv3rt B3ar]

the zones are outside yard, i have 2 speakers mounted to the back of the house by the deck, mood music for jacuzzie
zone 2 is first floor, i'm not going to do kitchen and livingroom separate cause they are so close, you could never listen to different music anyway. zone 3 is the basement, which is my domain, i have the bar and the theater down there.
i can either use the home theater speakers if i want to tap into that. i use the tape in, so it can play with any other input selected.
when i play gears of war 2, i like to have some speed metal playing at same time

and i always thought that Full house audio stands for 3+2 Z1s

[billberet]

I know i'm slow sometimes but that one went right over my head, lol

****
yes, increase button size.
friends with sausage fingers will have a hard time!

i'm sure i will have a difficult time with this, so i'm going to try to keep it simple.
i'll go over all your links and posts and ini files.
when you say P3rvTalk commands, is that a plugin?

thanks for all the info