Fate of "OLD" XLobby - A question for stevenhanna6

[P3rv3rt B3ar]

I have to agree with Marbles00, it seems apparent that "DIY version" or "forum edition xlobby" is not present on that list.

I think there are bunch of people for whom, building their HTPC system is actually more fun than using it... and i strongly feel that these people could use separate edition...

Which would be:

- Customizable to bone.
- Not necessaraly functioning out of the box.
- May as well be just core, without any extra modules.
- Not tied to any particular technology.
- Supported.
- Affordable.
- Pluginable.
- Skinnable.

[Marbles_00]

This furthers my concerns:

Xlobby will be sold seperately or pre-installed on a full working media PC. A individual can select Ver 1, Ver2 to be installed and configured from a list of items and shipped exactly the way they want it, IR remote, S3 graphics card, etc. The pro version, Ver 3 will have more features, and configurations to port to other manufactures products and will be distributed to the Systems integrator market.

More details on the hardware side will appear on the website over the next 2 weeks.

Wes

So what happens to all the great plugins individuals have produced so far? What about their IP? Totally up to them if they want to let Steven use them for profit. To most its their way of giving back to Xlobby, and fully understandable, hope they get some royalties out of it, and the way it sounds, they will. To others, where will their plugins fall into place? What I'm understanding from the above quote is that if the plugins that Steven and Wes deemed not required for the intermediate level of Xlobby, then we have to purchase the pro version. Basically, if PervTalk is not deemed important enough, then in order for me or anyone to utilize this function will require the purchase of the pro package (just using PervTalk as an example of course).

Again, it's most likely just me and the way I am...just siding on the error of concern and caution. Chalk it up to being a parent.

[lar282]

So what happens to all the great plugins individuals have produced so far? What about their IP? Totally up to them if they want to let Steven use them for profit.

How can he do that? I don't think that many of us release the source codes of the plugins!
Or did I miss the meaning of your sentence?

//Lasse

[Marbles_00]

That's the thing, he doesn't have to force you to do anything, nor will he, it's not his nature (from what I can tell), and why should he? As I've stated, if you choose to put forth your plugins to advance this venture, so be it. This again stresses that they should think about a forth version, otherwise to get the functions we will really want from existing plugins, according to the quote above:

"individual can select Ver 1"

doesn't sound like a whole lot can be done here.

"Ver2 to be installed and configured from a list of items and shipped exactly the way they want it, IR remote, S3 graphics card, etc."

Again, doesn't sound like a whole bunch can be done...what happens if we want to change or add, or in the very least, try some new function out?

"The pro version, Ver 3 will have more features, and configurations to port to other manufactures products and will be distributed to the Systems integrator market"

Way overkill for alot of our uses (again, granted, I could be speaking biasly), but is the only one to provide any additional functionality and ability to "fine" tune the system to our own personal needs/requirements (via plugins, or skinning), outside of the Calrad vision (no offence to anyone).

So, where does this leave us? Steven himself has stated that he hasn't even started to code. I would suspect that he will be coding primarily to interface Calrad products with Xlobby (at least to start). He has to make sure it works with their product, or this whole venture won't succeed. I figured that something like this would be formulated into some buisness plan or direction to proceed, but hey, I could be just blowing in the wind (known to happen).

As I've stated, maybe it's just me and my cautious behavior. Hey there's been alot of stuff going on here, everyone can see that...I'd just like to get into grips (along with others I'm sure) as to where all this is going.

[stevenhanna6]

A lot of comments on this thread, I'll start with the comments about us using other peoples plug-ins. We have no intentions what so ever to sell people plug-ins that are freely available on the site, that is the work of other people...they can sell their plug-ins if they want to make money off of them. What I can see happening is we will probably make some kind of mechanism down the road so people can sell their plug in if they wish. Its completely up to them what path they wish to take. Some thing goes for skins, some people will share their stuff and some people will want something in return....maybe someone will just want a free copy of the software for coding some skin or plugin....or maybe they want to setup a place to sell it for a small fee....there are lot of possibilities and we are open to them all. But I will reiterate, we will NOT bundle plug-ins or skins from other people in the software with out their consent.


This question about the versions and how it will work, you guys are looking for something that says version 1 will have x,y feature and version 2 with have x,y,z and version 44 will have blah blah blah.....this doesn't exist.....how can we tell you what the version break down will be in terms of features when software isn't even done....thats putting the cart before the horse and I wont do it. Everything is very fluid right now, nothing is set in stone for this stuff. I think I remember reading something about, hey what if all I want is option 1,20,and 33 can I have that....you know what that might be possible. We might just say, hey if all this guy wants are those specific functionality then it will cost what ever, maybe there wont be pre defined versions...maybe you guys will be given the choice on how to build your own custom version to what you need and dont need. Or maybe we will start with a base version, and you add on from there. I don't know there are so many different ways to do it, but when we get to that stage we will be throwing it out there for you guys and you can give us your feedback on it.

Steven himself has stated that he hasn't even started to code. I would suspect that he will be coding primarily to interface Calrad products with Xlobby (at least to start)

I haven't started to code because of the website and doing other things not because I'm programming stuff to make xlobby only work with calrad products...I know thats not what you said but I think people might jump to that conclusion so I want to clear it up before someone says you need the calrad video card to run xlobby And just to be clear if it wasn't said before, I wont be programming just for calrad products I will be programming to a bunch of different things and I will be programming ideas and suggestions you guys bring up on the forum....the direction of this product will be set the way its always been set....by the end users....that includes people on the forum and the system integrators out there.

I know people want answers, but we just don't have the answers to some of the questions...but we will try our best to explain why we dont have those answers. And I hope you guys understand that, we are taking this things a step at a time and we like all the feedback we are getting so far since it gives us insight on which direction to go....so don't ever think you guys are talking to the wall...because your not....me and Wes speak daily about the issues brought up on the forum and we will figure something out that will work for everyone. So I guess I'm saying have a little faith just for now. Hard to do I know, but everything will work out once the dust settles.

Sorry if Wes and my replies dont answer specific questions sometimes, we are not hiding anying...or ignoring you...hopefully you guys can see that...we are being as open as we can be...we are just really busy right now and we're were trying to get things done in a timely fashion by writing a general thought on everything as a whole. Hopefully no one holds that against us.

Other than that, great feedback all around guys

[S Pittaway]

Firstly, good luck with the venture, and cheers for a great product and all the great support you have provided!



That said i have to re say this - I think you can cut the waffle on here down to one question basic question, whats it going to cost...



I think that this is not an unreasonable request, i know you cant be too specific, but like i siad a while ago i think you can break the users here down into 3 groups (almost all with modded skins) -

1) use as a media interface

2) use a a media interface + multizone

3) systems that do everything from home security to closing the curterns at night

i know you cant price 3, but i would have thought that the first two could be guessed at?



if i have an idea about that, then i can make a better guess about what i need to do, rather than wiat 4/5 months and find that it would cost me XXXX to use a legit copy of xlobby...

Do i carry on messing with my never quite finished skin?

Do i try new features as you release them? (the answer would be yes, jsut to give you some feedback, but you know what i mean)

Should try and get any plugins i have wrote, wroking for other poeple? (i know its not the same as supporting xlobby but it still burns up a few nights trying to figure out why the hell it doesnt work for Xxy ).

The truth is all of these qustions boil down to the cost...




And on the plugin front, it would be nice to know if they will still be supported or will there be a full scale re-write of the interfcae on the cards?

It would be good if they carried on working...

but if the interface could be expanded to included more functionallity, it would be very nice (there are a few threads about expanding the interface).

if there was a nice interface i bet a lot of existing plugins could be easily re-writen/ported (most of mine are full of hacks to get round limitations anyway!)...

a more complete plugin interface would let people release better more functional plugins, which would have to be a great assest to a "real" product.

And of coarse you would get some free coding done as well



Sean.

[sdumas]

Great thread.

I am pleased to see that Xlobby is not dead - long live to Xlobby.

Here is a suggestion (another one to put in your bag of tricks).

Maybe to settle the choice of version, you could create a package that would contain x amount of options you could select from.

For example you buy a 10 pack options version. For that price you pick and choose the component you want; multi-zone, touchscreen, weather, etc. This way, you buy what you need. If you want more options you could get and additional 5 pack or 10 pack or whatever. You add to the package until you get the features you want.

Constraining the packages sometimes makes you buy more that you really need. It makes me think of a car. If you want the better radio, you have to get the sun roof. If you don't want the sun roof, you still getting it because you wanted the better radio...

That method will tell you as well what the popular options are and it should give you a good idea as to where to concentrate your development efforts. If everyone is buying the multi-zone but no one buys the weather option, then maybe you need to do one of two things - inprove the weather option to entice people to buy it, or, don't spend too much time on adding more to it... (these examples were random - it does not imply that these options are more or less in demand than others)

Make sure it's affordable of course. If I have to spend $1,000 at the end to get the system software I want, I am not sure if I will continue to support Xlobby. But if you make it affordable to expand - you'll have a definite winner and a supporter. I have been a $ contributor more than once and I will spend the necessary dollars to get there - to an extent.

My .02 cents.

[jmv]

My 2c on versions...look at the success microsoft is not having on Vista. Downgraded versions suck and paying the ultimate premium for the top version just to get the one key feature you need to make your system work sucks too. I've always felt that a fully featured package sold to everyone as one flavor to amortize costs while keeping profit constant is the best path. So my take is if you sell the SW make one version and price it right to the market volume. I also think that selling a "site license" option is also a good way to go. SageTV seems to have a pretty fair licensing (server is one price, clients another, much cheaper).

[Jay]

JMV. The issue I see with the Sage model is that I at least, have deployed fat clients. And they are full XL installs.

[dalanik]

My 2c on versions...look at the success microsoft is not having on Vista. Downgraded versions suck and paying the ultimate premium for the top version just to get the one key feature you need to make your system work sucks too. I've always felt that a fully featured package sold to everyone as one flavor to amortize costs while keeping profit constant is the best path.

I agree, that's why I made comment not to do what Meedio did. Somehow I dislike software that is sold "by piece"...

D.

[Colby]

I agree I hate upgrading versions or buying pieces. It would be better if we could rebate pieces, we buy full version and trade in pieces we dont use and get money back. . j/k I personally think 1 price for software is good. We know what Xlobby is, I dont expect we will be surprised with hidden costs, nor do I think Steven is out to rip us off. He is trying to improve and make it more marketable. I must say here however, my biggest pet peeve is contastantly "rebuying" software, or buying new versions / upgrades. I would rather pay like $20 more upfront and have free upgrades for a lifetime. I hope XL once purchased for whatever price, doesnt collect "membership dues" as it gets updated. That sort of thing would make, even me, leave.

[P3rv3rt B3ar]

I hope XL once purchased for whatever price, doesnt collect "membership dues" as it gets updated. That sort of thing would make, even me, leave.

I think that was exactly what Wes stated on one of his posting... I think i find it unacceptable too.

EDIT: ok here quote of his... actually it doesnt really tell much...

In order to make the Xlobby software prosper in the future it will be necessary to charge for certain add on's, upgrades etc. and some will be free.

[dalanik]

I must say here however, my biggest pet peeve is contastantly "rebuying" software, or buying new versions / upgrades. I would rather pay like $20 more upfront and have free upgrades for a lifetime.

Ah, yes, definitely! The worst combination would be to sell it by pieces and then charging for upgrades, etc. Or making it in such a way, that you MUST upgrade (i.e. purchase new version), otherwise some stuff stops working, etc. Better to have slightly higher price, and have free upgrades, let's say, until some major change (i.e. Xlobby4)

Ah, yes, And please use some decent payment service, not Paypal That's the reason I didn't donate so far, because I can't do it from here (i.e. my card is British and I live in Czech, and they want to authenticate you by phone... and it asumes your phone starts with +44).

D.

[abobader]

Ah, yes, And please use some decent payment service, not Paypal That's the reason I didn't donate so far, because I can't do it from here (i.e. my card is British and I live in Czech, and they want to authenticate you by phone... and it asumes your phone starts with +44).

D.

I been saying that for some time now

[lpg]

It will be interesting to see the target market Steven and Wes are talking about. I looked at a number of the products and pricepoints and calrad is targeted at commercial and the very high end market. As an example the cheapest touchscreen/computer - all have processor in them - is $1100us. Their prices for audio/video distribution equiptment seem to be inline for the industry - translation too expensive for many of us. If the trend xLobby into that market the price for the functionality we have will be $250-$500 or higher. The competition at the HTPC end is in the $7500-10K range as some has mentioned before. I do not see this being a sub $100 product. I would love to be proved wrong.

Larry