7th Pre-Release Ready

[wesblack]

I Posted this after the Cedia show.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5946&p=41336&hilit=#p41336

I am currently working on a new xLobby status update that I will post in the next few days. I am still puzzled by the constant posts about moving on. Everyone still has the free version, we keep extending the latest beta and still people complain. Steven and I are both commited to getting the new version out. It seems people have stopped contributing skins, plug-ins, ideas, etc., why ! "the new version skin will be backwards compatible with any new or future release of xLobby" and if your systems already do what you want then why not continue to support the product as it is or the last free-ware version as in the past. The community should still continue to grow and move forward. Calrad paid Steven for the many bug fixes in the last posted free version of xLobby and still people complain, let's face it no matter what we say or do not everyone will be happy. Read all my posts I repeat the same information over and over + I explain Steven is in control of the core development. Why should I spend hours of my personal time answering questions to most user's here that have not contributed a dime to Steven in the past or to Calrad for keeping xLobby around. Steven and I continue to answer or support anyone we can when possible, thanks to several active users on the forum who really help out, we find it unnecessary to participate in every post. xLobby will continue and is already used by many installers that are very happy with the current version with virtually no complaints from users. If xLobby is to continue to be profitable for Steven and Calrad, we must follow the current business plan and unfortunately channel the product more towards the system installers and integrators who will provide a consistant re-order and usage of the xLobby system.

If people read my posts they would see I provide as many details as possible.

My posts: search.php?author_id=2153&sr=posts

The post below is a perfect example !, the lastest build does send RS232 strings, what exactly do you mean about communicating. My E-mail address is on the Calrad site for any one who wants to contact me and I look at the xLobby Forum almost every day or at least on a regular bassis.

Wayne - Have you decided on a product yet?

I think I'm pretty close to giving up too. I've been around here a long time and really want to see Steven succeed, but if this is the way the new xLobby/Calrad will communicate to the users, it concerns me.

The free version is great for some, but I need the external control via RS232, Global Cahce, etc. Premise has been functioning, but I know that you know it's way past a dead end.


This will be the last post about this subject. We will create a specific section on the main page of xLobby for anyone who wants to see the current post from Calrad only, on the current status of xLobby. Doing this will will prevent any future posts from us getting lost on the forum.





Wes Black \ Calrad

[defrag]

Wes - you may want to repost this - it got lost in the end of page black hole

I Posted this after the Cedia show.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5946&p=41336&hilit=#p41336

I am currently working on a new xLobby status update that I will post in the next few days. I am still puzzled by the constant posts about moving on. Everyone still has the free version, we keep extending the latest beta and still people complain. Steven and I are both commited to getting the new version out. It seems people have stopped contributing skins, plug-ins, ideas, etc., why ! "the new version skin will be backwards compatible with any new or future release of xLobby" and if your systems already do what you want then why not continue to support the product as it is or the last free-ware version as in the past. The community should still continue to grow and move forward. Calrad paid Steven for the many bug fixes in the last posted free version of xLobby and still people complain, let's face it no matter what we say or do not everyone will be happy. Read all my posts I repeat the same information over and over + I explain Steven is in control of the core development. Why should I spend hours of my personal time answering questions to most user's here that have not contributed a dime to Steven in the past or to Calrad for keeping xLobby around. Steven and I continue to answer or support anyone we can when possible, thanks to several active users on the forum who really help out, we find it unnecessary to participate in every post. xLobby will continue and is already used by many installers that are very happy with the current version with virtually no complaints from users. If xLobby is to continue to be profitable for Steven and Calrad, we must follow the current business plan and unfortunately channel the product more towards the system installers and integrators who will provide a consistant re-order and usage of the xLobby system.

If people read my posts they would see I provide as many details as possible.

My posts: search.php?author_id=2153&sr=posts

The post below is a perfect example !, the lastest build does send RS232 strings, what exactly do you mean about communicating. My E-mail address is on the Calrad site for any one who wants to contact me and I look at the xLobby Forum almost every day or at least on a regular bassis.

Wayne - Have you decided on a product yet?

I think I'm pretty close to giving up too. I've been around here a long time and really want to see Steven succeed, but if this is the way the new xLobby/Calrad will communicate to the users, it concerns me.

The free version is great for some, but I need the external control via RS232, Global Cahce, etc. Premise has been functioning, but I know that you know it's way past a dead end.


This will be the last post about this subject. We will create a specific section on the main page of xLobby for anyone who wants to see the current post from Calrad only, on the current status of xLobby. Doing this will will prevent any future posts from us getting lost on the forum.





Wes Black \ Calrad

[defrag]

Just a few points though.... not everyone has the free version as it's not available any more from the xlobby site - and I would not consider the pre-release free as it is time limited.

For those that DO continue to contribute to the community (for free) the broad brush approach to "It seems people have stopped contributing skins, plug-ins, ideas, etc.," is simply not true. The number of users who have developed skins, plugins etc was never huge compared with the number of non contributing end users, but many of the negative comments (as you would see them) have come from those contributers.

It's easy to pick on the simple "should I stay" posts, but there have been some very good posts as to why people are frustrated. We all know you and Steven are busy - but regular updates, even if nothing is happening - tends to keep people happier, and I am glad to see you will be addressing this.

[Marbles_00]

xLobby will continue and is already used by many installers that are very happy with the current version with virtually no complaints from users. If xLobby is to continue to be profitable for Steven and Calrad, we must follow the current business plan and unfortunately channel the product more towards the system installers and integrators who will provide a consistant re-order and usage of the xLobby system.

Again you have also made reference to the fact that your already selling xlobby. This was brought out by Lasse in another post. If you are indeed selling it, then why hasn't there been a reflection of costs brought to our attention. That is one key reason why some individuals here are frustrated. You've also indicated that you indeed have a business plan. Would this indicate what the exact breakdown of the different version would be. What's the difference between basic multi-zoning/multi-client/PPC/plugins features to the more advanced features that the "pro" version offers? This is another thing that has frustrated users here. If there is a business plan for a release around this time frame (as originally suggested by you and Steven), then you should be able to clearly define and answer these simple questions by now.

[wesblack]

Some users of free-ware xLobby thought Calrad was using the forum for beta testing, not true. We have already sold many systems complete with hardware and the Version 2 xLobby software complete as a stand alone solution not just the software, with plenty of resources for testing etc.. As stated before the value of xlobby is a complete solution not a $ 99.00 or $ 200.00 piece of software only. If we sold a 1000 copies at $ 100.00 each this would not come close to cover the current development costs to date. We already have a huge investment of time and money in getting xLobby to market, development and support hardware, personel, legal, trade shows costs etc.. Version 3 of xLobby is still in development and we feel this version will be worthy of the xLobby community and there requirements for consideration of a limited purchase, when ready we will make the details available.

Read all my previous posts as I explain the pricing issues several times for xLobby. I know you and others are very active on the forum and support xLobby and have done so for several years, believe me we really appreciate everyone's efforts.

We are doing our best !








Wes Black \ Calrad

[cmhardwick]

We're not wanting a rehash of pricing issues. If it's already being sold, as a complete system, then what is it being sold for? And even if it's a "complete package price", guess what, since those packages are being customized for each install (number of splitters, external controls, external interfaces, etc) then there is probably an itemized invoice showing cost of each component leading up to the total, which SHOULD also list software costs. Constantly being told "we'll let you know when we're ready" tells us nothing. Also, is there EVER going to be an accurate breakdown of what the different flavors of xLobby will contain? All anyone ever gets are vague answers, but you've OBVIOUSLY got a working product, or the installers and integrators wouldn't be purchasing it.

...channel the product more towards the system installers and integrators who will provide a consistant re-order and usage of the xLobby system.

So this leads me to believe that the home DYI type is out of lulck and not important to your business plan and to think this is the primary reason why so little information, DETAILED information, is being given to us here.

As to very little complaints. I've got one issue that I wish someone could address ... encoding DVD files (TV Episodes) to AVI files with AC3 audio, I get NO sound from the internal player. Every other video player I have plays it fine. FFDShow audio codec shows it as decoding the stream, but no sound.

Anyway ... on we trudge, waiting, wondering.

[samgreco]

"Always tease tease tease
You're happy when I'm on my knees
One day is fine, next is black
So if you want me off your back
Well come on and let me know
Should I Stay or should I go?

Should I stay or should I go now?
Should I stay or should I go now?
If I go there will be trouble
An' if I stay it will be double
So come on and let me know
Well come on and let me know
Should I Stay or should I go?"

Mick Jones, The Clash 1982

[lar282]

Hi
Just wanted to say why I asked for price and so.

Sure some of us have the free Xlobby version and I am VERY happy with it. Thats's why we use Xlobby. Problem for new users is that they can't get the free one! Problem for me personally is that I will NOT put a beta application on my system. Betas or timebomb apps belong in testenvironment systems, abd that's where I have your latest releases. Don't u guys think we have a little! point in asking when the hell we can buy Xlobby so we can get ride of the timebomd and start developing new plugins and etc. I am not going anywhere cause for me XL is the best software for my needs. I just want to get ride of the bugs in the free version and in the thin client, and the only way to do that is to use your timebomb version and that I will not do. Just start selling the 8:th release and make us all happy, or remove the timebomb for all of us old time users?


Regards

//Lasse

[cmhardwick]

Well, this pretty much serves as an answer about

from Lasse ... start selling the 8:th release and make us all happy, or remove the timebomb for all of us old time users?

from Wes ----

The next xLobby pre-release will include the WACI integration control events and sample control menu's.

yet another timebomb edition ... but we KNOW there are non-timebomb editions, becuase they are actively selling this software with hardware to installers!

[rhinoman]

yet another timebomb edition ... but we KNOW there are non-timebomb editions, becuase they are actively selling this software with hardware to installers!

I agree, why not get the oldtimers/contributors/donators into the loop even if there is not a finished product, I'm sure I'd be happy to pay for the product even though its still in beta and get more of us onto the new version instead of us bantering about the old one. Its often been mentioned that we would be "looked after" with the commercial product by way of a subsidy so why not include the taking the beta product with a free upgrades to the final version as part of the subsidy. An early adopters discount perhaps?

It just seems a shame that the longer we wait, the more people are dropping by the wayside.

[P3rv3rt B3ar]

If we sold a 1000 copies at $ 100.00 each this would not come close to cover the current development costs to date.

I fail to see how is that any worse than selling 10 @ $10.000

EDIT: surely u know that Bugatti sells 5 special model Veyrons... but i bet neither u or me cant count how damn many folkswagons they need to sell to cover the costs

If id have enough money to buy that car... i wouldnt still buy 10k$ lobby. But mayby thats just because i cant make a car which goes 400+ km/h all by myself...

[samgreco]

Wes - you may want to repost this - it got lost in the end of page black hole

I Posted this after the Cedia show.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5946&p=41336&hilit=#p41336

I am currently working on a new xLobby status update that I will post in the next few days. I am still puzzled by the constant posts about moving on. Everyone still has the free version, we keep extending the latest beta and still people complain. Steven and I are both commited to getting the new version out. It seems people have stopped contributing skins, plug-ins, ideas, etc., why ! "the new version skin will be backwards compatible with any new or future release of xLobby" and if your systems already do what you want then why not continue to support the product as it is or the last free-ware version as in the past. The community should still continue to grow and move forward. Calrad paid Steven for the many bug fixes in the last posted free version of xLobby and still people complain, let's face it no matter what we say or do not everyone will be happy. Read all my posts I repeat the same information over and over + I explain Steven is in control of the core development. Why should I spend hours of my personal time answering questions to most user's here that have not contributed a dime to Steven in the past or to Calrad for keeping xLobby around. Steven and I continue to answer or support anyone we can when possible, thanks to several active users on the forum who really help out, we find it unnecessary to participate in every post. xLobby will continue and is already used by many installers that are very happy with the current version with virtually no complaints from users. If xLobby is to continue to be profitable for Steven and Calrad, we must follow the current business plan and unfortunately channel the product more towards the system installers and integrators who will provide a consistant re-order and usage of the xLobby system.

If people read my posts they would see I provide as many details as possible.

My posts: search.php?author_id=2153&sr=posts

The post below is a perfect example !, the lastest build does send RS232 strings, what exactly do you mean about communicating. My E-mail address is on the Calrad site for any one who wants to contact me and I look at the xLobby Forum almost every day or at least on a regular bassis.

Wayne - Have you decided on a product yet?

I think I'm pretty close to giving up too. I've been around here a long time and really want to see Steven succeed, but if this is the way the new xLobby/Calrad will communicate to the users, it concerns me.

The free version is great for some, but I need the external control via RS232, Global Cahce, etc. Premise has been functioning, but I know that you know it's way past a dead end.


This will be the last post about this subject. We will create a specific section on the main page of xLobby for anyone who wants to see the current post from Calrad only, on the current status of xLobby. Doing this will will prevent any future posts from us getting lost on the forum.





Wes Black \ Calrad

Somehow I missed this post. And I think you are missing why I am concerned. I cannot speak for anyone else.

The last version does RS232. The free version doesn't. Is it even bi-directional?

I am NOT currently using Xlobby. I was hoping that I could switch when it will do what I want and because of the great skinning engine. But I still don't have any clue how much it will cost me. I have no idea how long I will have to wait to find out. Wes, I am not slamming you or Steven. Hell, the only reason I'm hanging in there at all is that I DID contribute to Steven very early on and would have continued to do so had I continued to use the product.

I think that the important point here is that our time, the potential users of this product, is valuable too. Why would we spend a ton of time skinning, writing plugins, promoting your product, when we have no clue if we can even afford to buy it?

So it may seem like I'm attacking you with all of these questions, but I really just wanted to know if I was wasting my time.

So from now on, I'll keep quiet, and check in every so often to see how it's going. I won't bother you with questions again.

And I was one of the ones that told Steven I thought a partnership was a good idea.

[Vaporware]

Strange. I check the forum almost every day for any updates and I did not catch the post by Wes. I am glad that Defrag posted it again. It shows that there is life in Xlobby. Still I wait, like many others, until the fog clears and Calrad decides if they really will sell Xlobby to those of us that have supported Steven and at what price.
I have to agree with Samgreco when he wrote:

I think that the important point here is that our time, the potential users of this product, is valuable too. Why would we spend a ton of time skinning, writing plugins, promoting your product, when we have no clue if we can even afford to buy it?

My feelings exactly. In fact I have to agree with the entire post of Samgreco. All Calrad needs to do to get interest back in Xlobby and people cranking out ideas again is to come up with a $$ amount. If the $$ amount is acceptable to people then I am sure the forum will be cranking up. If not then the forum will be even deader than it is now. In any event the ball is in Calrad's court and we are waiting until they serve the ball.
Now when will they serve the ball.. Maybe the next hour or the next year.. With the amount of time that has gone by so far I would say next year... In the meantime I will go back to my silent lurking waiting until Calrad creates a 'Pay Now' button that has an acceptable price for software only.. Considering that Calrad provides 'total package' solutions we may never see a 'Pay Now' button for software only. I just wish they would come out and state that so we all can move on.

Later,
Tom

[thekochs]

In the meantime I will go back to my silent lurking waiting until Calrad creates a 'Pay Now' button that has an acceptable price for software only.. Considering that Calrad provides 'total package' solutions we may never see a 'Pay Now' button for software only. I just wish they would come out and state that so we all can move on.

Later,
Tom

I'm beginning to wonder if Steven and them are prohibited in selling the software only because they are worried that it would be used on general...non-Calrad...hardware. Since Steven isn't saying and so long of a time has passed this would be a logical conclusion that there is no intent to distribute a entry level software version for home enthisiast. I really hope this is not the case because it would mean alot of folks were sold up the river in good faith. Currently, I use the last free XLobby version and for my needs is works fine but would continue my time and $$$ if such a package came out. I think my next inflection point will be if my needs change and XLobby no longer works....and/or other package part of my process cause a glitch in XLobby so it becomes unusable. I almost ran into one with DVD Profiler when they went to 3.x and the XML output database changes....luckily there is a third party freeware app that allows you to convert. Just don't know how many of those bullets can be dodged in the future.

To summarize, I think the most dissapointing thing of all is Steven's lack of response to month's of posts and questions about this subject. I'm truly glad he found a way to make his years of work profitble for him personally....I would just hope he would consider the masses of folks behind him who are potentially twisting in the wind.

Here's to keeping the faith !!!!

[cmhardwick]

thekochs, the one glitch in that conversion (which is a God send definitely) is that is messes up CR/LF characters, so everything comes in as one big paragraph in the PLOT. Yes it's fixable, but a pain

THANKS FOR SHARING THAT FIND THOUGH!!