Fate of "OLD" XLobby - A question for stevenhanna6

[BaddaBing]

Will you allow the current last free version of XL to be distributed? Right now your license does not allow anyone but you to distribute the file. Will that limitation be removed once the commercial version is released? I look forward to the new version - the integration of XL and a WACI controller looks cool. But not everyone has the money or the need to go beyond what XL currently does. Even in Zombie-mode, with no further development or support, the current XL can still provide many years of service as a freeware app. Just a thought...

[stevenhanna6]

This is a tricky thing for me, let me try to explain what I think will happen if I continue distributing the old freeware version. I think that we will splinter the users, and I would like everyone to support the commercial version so we can continue developing new features and new ideas. I agree with you that the freeware version is very powerful and a lot can be done with it still, but if people stay with that version...and I can't force them to erase it or buy the commercial version...I think we might loose potential revenue. Revenue that can help xlobby be successfully and allowing it to grow the way we all want it too.

It hasn't been outlined yet, but there will be different version of the software. This will be done exactly for the reason you mentioned, not everyone will be able to afford the high end version that controls a bunch of lighting systems and 30 different rs232 receivers, etc etc....the high end version will be loaded with stuff that most people on here would never ever need....that will be geard to-wards system integrators. But then on the other side of the spectrum you will have somebody that just wants the basics, so that will be priced much much lower. Then you will have everything in between, like I said we are going to try to accommodate everyone, we aren't trying to rip people off or take them for a ride that goes no where. We will be talking directly with the community about all this stuff as we get close to the commercial version which will be some months ahead....by the way I haven't even started working on the new version stuff yet.

If anyone else has concerns like this please post here. I'll try my best to explain, but we are still early on in this stuff so its hard to get into specific when they haven't been worked out yet. But as we do work them out we will be asking for everyone opinions on the best course for all involved. Hope that explains it a bit more.

[samgreco]

Steven,

It sounds as though you and Wes have thought this through quite well.

One thing I am curious about is what levels of pricing do you think it will be? I realize that you probably aren't prepared to say yet, but can you say that the pro version will be less than $XXX ? Or a range?

Another way to look at it would be, will you be competing with CQC or MainLobby, pricewise?

I personally will probably be looking at the pro version, as that seems like it will be the feature set I had been hoping for in Xlobby for quite some time.

I am going to need to make a move soon, as the WAF around here is starting to drop, with the kludged system I am running now. I'd rather wait to see what you come up with and not jump ship.

On another note, I spent quite some time as a manufacturer's rep in the pro-audio and home audio markets. Calrad has a great reputation out there. I think you did well in you choice of partner

Sam

[rembetis]

Then you will have everything in between

.

I think the vast majority of users will fall within this mid-level, catch-all category. Which leads me to suggest an alternate possibility...

Would it be at all feasible to come up with an a la carte setup where mid-level users could pick and choose the advanced features they need? The last thing people are going to want is to be nickle and dimed like MainLobby, but I think you could have a basic configuration with the option to add two or three more advanced features. Like, for instance, I might never incorporate a thin client but I would like RS232 control. Both fall within that not a beginner, but not a pro either range. Under the proposed (albeit still protean) plan, I would probably be forced to either buy a basic version that doesn't do everything I need, or pay for an advanced version that includes features I don't need.

Am I making sense?

[wesblack]

I understand your concerns about picking the version that works. I also understand that some features are more important to some then others. We will do our best to create features that compliment each version. We will definately be asking the forum for there opinions and see what the majority want's. Obviously it will be impossible to make everyone happy. Steven and I have come up with the idea of being able to add plugin's as well as little idependent Widget programs that run as a stand alone application and others that can plug into the core of xlobby and also be run standalone. You can see a basic idea of them here.

http://www.calrad.com/Xlobby%20Widgets.html

These are just sample graphics and will look much differently when completed.

Steven is working on a real widget for everyone to experiment, use and make comments on, he will posting details about them very soon. In order to make the Xlobby software prosper in the future it will be necessary to charge for certain add on's, upgrades etc. and some will be free.

Look what happened to Meedio, there was just not enough users paying for the software on a regular bassis to support there efforts, Pablo or there staff. How much more value in a short period of time can you add to keep people paying for upgrades. Even companies like Snapstram have completely discontinued there support of Beyond media and the users who bought there software are left with nothing, no upgrade or fixes in years. Many of the users on there forum's are pissed off, the employees's at snapstream do not even answer E-Mails or posts on the forum, in fact they remove all negative statements against the product's or the company. The product only stays in existance because of the loyal users that provide very usefull plugins and support to each other.

Sorry for the long rant here ! This is very Important for everyone to understand !

Xlobby as it is may fit the needs of most people and others feel it needs to move forward. We are doing just that. It must have on going development that it can profit from to survive, like system integrators or companies selling many systems with Xlobby on a daily bassis. The idea of the pro versions are that if someone is going to build a product around Xlobby and it's plug-in's, widgets, ect. and sell it to a customer making hefty profits, then Steven and Calrad should benefit. This will be the only way to provide the continued financial support that Xlobby needs to prosper in the future. This will insure that the Lite and Basic versions will alway's be around.

All comments are welcome here.

Wes

[dalanik]

... but if people stay with that version...and I can't force them to erase it or buy the commercial version...I think we might loose potential revenue.

I don't think you're right here. If commercial XLobby is too expensive for someone, he simply won't buy it, with or without freeware version. In worst case scenario, he will switch to something else that's freeware (MediaPortal?).

After all, when Meedio was introduced, MyHTPC remained freeware and I don't think THAT killed Meedio.

D.

[S Pittaway]

the basic question is, what is it going to cost?

The pricing is fundamental - i bought anydvd. theartertek, nebula digitv etc because they are great products and the price was reasonable (£50 or under), the higher it goes the less i can justify it...


I know its early days, but you must have come up with a bsaic pricing statergy...

for example i (and quite a few others i guess) simply use xlobby has a media front end, remote controled (via usbuirt or girder) what is a guess on the price?

ditto for multi zone audio / thin client control...

the more exotic/specialised it gets, th harder it is to price (and where you start getting the benifts of your widget type pricing).


I also think some sort of roadmad might be usefull?
whats planned to be added/removed?


I guess these are basic questions that mopst people will be asking?

[abobader]

Well said indeed S Pittaway.

For me, no less than the new comer ver of XL 3 Pro will fit here, Servers/Clients is a must for my LAN.

I am still confuse tho in one area, the Pro ver, it will be ported to hardware or customize to support on the market hardware, ok, do that mean "Calrad" will supply these hardwares? I mean as a one solutions media servers/clients matters?

Pricing will be issue for all, either money object or not, but also most important how the final setup for the XL ver 3 pro will be.

My best.

[Marbles_00]

I'm kinda in agreeance with what has been said. I've got multi-zoning to work for me. When I go and finally build my HTPC, this current Xlobby will be able to do what I require. So what do these future version bring to the table that will pull me away from what I've been able to do?

I know I was one of the first to ask about the different versions, and I know it is not set in stone as to how they would be laid out, but may I throw out there a forth option to purchase. A version of XLobby that is basically this version...everything that this Xlobby can currently do. Have it so the bugs are fixed and a few extra enhanced features to entice me into wanting to jump to purchasing it. A version that does not have all the bells and whistles out of the box like the pro version, but like this current version, I must add these via plugin's, and integrate on my own to achieve what I want the system to do myself, and totally build up the system to what I want, just like what I have done now for doing my audio zoning requirements.

I don't know, I'm excited that you have found this direction Steven. And I know and fully understand that you have not totally worked out all the details. So consider the above as just a simple thought.

[Jay]

Will there continue to be plugins from the community/3rd parties?
If so, regardless of whether or not they may come at some cost, there needs to be a mechanism to ensure on-going support for them with XL going commercial.
HomeSeer (for example) has experienced a community backlash regarding pricing and lack of 3rd party support for some plugins.

[P3rv3rt B3ar]

Yeah, these are questions ive been asking too... I have extra package here with xPerT. Even though i could make a change to next edition (which is not guaranteed, since most of discussion about new features seems to be stuff i have no need for, only thing which really IMHO falls on core part suggested so far has been Wes talk about widgets. all that said if there will be fully customizable low price edition (basicly xl as now with support, as suggested by MArbles00) i do my part to support the effort and jump right in) Im afraid that xPerT might not. Cause xpert (not including pervtalk part) is unique in the sense that it really tries to provide enchantments to the core. As i have stated my plugin architecture is frontend independent and as such can handle any uncertainty, but over 95% of all pervtalk related development has been devoted to xPerT, mainly because of features it provides are all mostly hacks and relative complicate to implement cause creative (mis)use of SDK was needed, that is also reason theyre not future proven and as such might soon be wasted. So all this raises a question that mayby i just fix bugs within xPerT and leave it as such to provide some xtra features for those who intend to stick with zombie version...

[dalanik]

IA version of XLobby that is basically this version...everything that this Xlobby can currently do.
...
A version that does not have all the bells and whistles out of the box like the pro version, but like this current version

Aha, but you're assuming that THIS version will be "basic" one! What if THIS version is the "bells and whistles", and they expect you to go pro for PDA/thin client/multizoning.etc ?



just joking, ofcourse!

D.

[Keifer1]

There seems to be a starter list of featurs and versions on this link...

http://www.calrad.com/Xlobby%20Widgets.html

Check out compare versions button.

[P3rv3rt B3ar]

Yeah but that dosent help at all... its written on different abstraction level than people here are customed to think...

i mean instead of thinking about music and video, people here think in terms of categories and databases...

But somehow it sounds like that lite version is noncustomizable.

[Marbles_00]

That link was what I based my initial assumptions on and indicated in my post when Steven made the announcement that Xlobby was going comercial.

Dalanik, going by the discription that Calrad outlined (and Steven never did guarenteed that was set in stone), I am NOT assuming that this level of XLobby is the basic version. Far from it. As stated above, they make the basic version sound as though it is not-customizeable at all.

Where I'm coming from is that Calrad already has a customer base of individuals from basic users to full integrators/installers. They have to meet that base of customer requirements as well. So they sell a bar-bones system to their most basic customer to satisfy their needs. They sell the full pro-version to the integrator/installer, that integrates well with their hardware product in a nice quick and somewhat easy package. I mean, they can't make that difficult or they may loose that customer base, which I'm sure Calrad does not want to do. Finally they have that one in between where it gives you a little bit more function that allows their customers some tweaking, but not full scale as the pro version. So where does that leave us? We, who based our setup on tweaking in our own way, utilizing the plugins required, and hack/workarounds.

I'm sure it will all work out, but sitting back and viewing how the changes are occuring pretty quickly...I guess, I'm just siding on the error of caution.