X10 and xAP

Xlobby plugin development

X10 and xAP

Postby Hiller on Fri Oct 01, 2004 1:19 pm

Hey everyone,

I know I started a thread about HomeSeer for X10 integration but I have been playing with xAP since I found out about it yesterday. It seems pretty interesting so I wrote up the start of a plugin for XL.

I need someone with a CMA11 to do a quick test for me tonight. If I get someone that can run the test I will send more info on what is necessary to get going. I don't want to do that until I know someone can give me a few minutes.

Basically right now I'm sending an xAP message for X10 to turn on a light. I just want to make sure this works before I move ahead. If it does work this could be really exciting for XLobby and for it's users. Also, if it does work I will be purchasing my own X10 stuff so I don't have to beg for other people's help :)

Thanks,
Steve
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I will help ...

Postby kolemieux on Fri Oct 01, 2004 3:11 pm

I'd be delighted to help with any testing - do you have the FireCracker support yet. I am dependant upon Firecracker but have X10 all over the place and can help you big-time.

Please let me know.
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Postby Hiller on Fri Oct 01, 2004 4:34 pm

I just have integration with CM1x stuff right now I think. I want to just see if the message is going through. If it is, I will be a busy little bever this weekend!

Steve
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Postby MR on Fri Oct 01, 2004 4:49 pm

The Firecracker is the CM17A (I think.) So if this is CM1x compatible, I would think it would work.
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Postby CouchPotatoe on Fri Oct 01, 2004 5:04 pm

Hi Hiller,

I will happily work with you on this. There are a couple of things that we might need to sort - and it might be best if we get you up to date with some current beta versions as the xAP X10 connector and the xAP HomeSeer connector both have imminent updates appearing. The new X10 connector supports BSC13 and the xAP plugin has many many new features. BSC is probably the most flexible way to go although the existing X10 schema is still supported too .

Kevin
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Postby Hiller on Fri Oct 01, 2004 8:17 pm

Couch,

That would be great. You seem to know what you are doing and I have a few questions about things. Maybe you could drop by the IRC channel or something? #xlobby on efnet or you could AIM me at "Hiller 131". I don't have MSN messenger on my laptop or I would give you that too. That is if you have the time.

Thanks,
Steve
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Postby Aaron on Fri Oct 01, 2004 9:46 pm

I can test it... I have HS 1.7

I need to install the xAP plug-in on HS, right?
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Latest xAP X10 connector

Postby erspearson on Fri Oct 01, 2004 9:51 pm

Hi,

I've been putting some finishing touches to the new version of the v2 xAP X10 connector having had feedback on the beta version. It has a thorough implementation of the BSC v1.3 schema (basic status and control) as well as the older (X10 specific) X10 message schema. The advantage of BSC is that it provides a uniform set of control and status messages across a range of devices; the details of X10 (eg, addresses like C4, M10) are abstracted into nice xAP target addresses like livingroom.lamp and entrance.motion detector. This is all setup using a GUI interface. Using xAP with the BSC message schema means that a xAP plug-in for xLobby will work without change across any xAP device implementing BSC of which there are several now in existance. The .Net dll's are small enough to email and will simply install over the existing v1 GUI distribution available from xapframework.net.

Edward
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Postby Hiller on Fri Oct 01, 2004 10:15 pm

Thanks for stopping by Edward. I would love to get what you have for betas so I can start using BSC if that is the way xAP is heading. You can email me at mailto:steve.hiller@gmail.com

I can't find anything other than the Mapper on any of the xAP websites about BSC. Where can I get the docs(if they exist) that explians exactly how BSC works and what the schema is?

Steve
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Postby erspearson on Fri Oct 01, 2004 10:30 pm

I'll email you the latest X10 connector over the weekend (just a couple of things I want to change first). The BSC specification is available at the xAP developer group on Yahoo! along with lots of other information...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/xAP_developer/

there's also the main xAP group at

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/xap_automation/
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Postby mi4 on Fri Oct 01, 2004 11:25 pm

Steve,

I am currently making the xAP plugin to HomeSeer. The current version and all the guides on it are available at http://www.mi4.biz. However I am soon to release an updated plugin with lots more features as well as full support for BSC v1.3. If you want to try the latest test version you can get it here http://www.mi4.biz/downloads/hspi_xap.zip ( you will need mswinsock,msflexgrid and vbrun6 ocx/dlls for it to run). I hope to get a finished and packaged version out this weekend.
BSC is a really good way of getting two devices to control each other, it is very much suited to cbus,x10,barionet and other control devices and is very much the best place to start. All HomeSeer devices, whether created from xAP, from another plugin or from HomeSeer itself can be controlled and monitored using BSC. But BSC isn't the only schema that the HomeSeer plugin supports. There is also a command shema where you can get HomeSeer to speak, run a macro, send an email, change device states and more all from xAP. Also if you used to use HomeSeer connected straight to a cm12 you can now share the cm12 between all xAP applications using Edward's app. HomeSeer can use a virtual x10 interface where all commands get relayed over xAP - I fact you can even use 2 of them and route different house codes to each!
If you have any questions just ask, here or on the xAP yahoo groups or just drop me an email at james_xl at mi4.biz

James
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Postby CouchPotatoe on Sat Oct 02, 2004 12:46 am

erspearson wrote:The BSC specification is available at the xAP developer group on Yahoo! along with lots of other information...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/xAP_developer/

there's also the main xAP group at

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/xap_automation/


Just to clarify it's in the files area of these groups eg there is a PDF version at http://tinyurl.com/4cr7a. The whole xAP v1.2 spec is available at http://www.xapautomation.org - click on "xAP in Depth - the specification" - any questions post appropriately to either the XAP Developer Group or the xAP Automation group, or of course here if its XLobby related.

If you are using HomeSeer then please do use the new plugin James has provided a link to here - its much more feature rich than the previous published version on the HomeSeer BBS - very impressive ...

Hiller = sorry I dont use AIM or IRC but I do use MSN if that's any use - alternatively feel free to email me as well if you want at xlobby<at>ukusa.co.uk -

Kevin -

I will keep checking this thread quite frequently over the next few days if I can be of any use

Kevin
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Postby Hiller on Sat Oct 02, 2004 1:07 am

You guys are incredable! You are very devoted to what you do and I hope to do some justice to this interface with my limited knowledge. xAP makes things pretty easy and I think all the discussion on the thread tonight has changed how I'm going to do things.

I think I'm first going to try to integrate some of the HS stuff through xAP using BSC. I'll put an order in for some starter X10 stuff unless someone can suggest something better for lighting integration. The X10 delay is a concern of mine but for the price I might just get some of the stuff anyway to play with it. As an electrical engineer I have a tendency to tinker :)

Anyway, that's enough for tonight. Thanks again for all your input. It's great to know that you guys are all as active as Steven is here with development. I'm sure we can get this working.

Steve
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Postby hjackson on Sat Oct 02, 2004 2:28 am

"The X10 delay is a concern of mine..."

Hiller, for what it's worth, I find the delay noticeable, but never objectionable. There is more of a delay with the CM11A device than with the handheld remote, but I would say it is closer to 1 second than 2. I hope I'm not splitting hairs... :lol:

hjackson
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Postby CouchPotatoe on Sat Oct 02, 2004 11:31 am

hjackson wrote:"The X10 delay is a concern of mine..."

Hiller, for what it's worth, I find the delay noticeable, but never objectionable. There is more of a delay with the CM11A device than with the handheld remote, but I would say it is closer to 1 second than 2. I hope I'm not splitting hairs... :lol:

hjackson
Actually no you're perfectly correct :-) - and I was lax in just throwing out a 'couple of seconds' comment - X10 AIUI is a series of groups of data pulses each of which occupies 11 mains cycles. The addressing and command are separate and each one is sent twice with a 3 cycle gap in betweeen so you need to wait 4 * 11 + 3 * 3 cycles to transmit the whole command I think which is 53 cycles. Slightly under 1 second on 60Hz and just a tad over on 50Hz - you US guys get their first again ;-) ! The addressing operates on a sort of 'preselect your housecode' with one command and then the actual command is actioned on a unit number so in some cases it is not always necessary to send the housecode again eg switching unit B2 followed by B8 - this can
cut time in half.

Dimming is a bit of a minefield though as all dims are relative and X10 is not by any means a guaranteed delivery system so commands get missed. There are some devices that support a stored level or precise level set but the typical devices always switch on at 100% brightness and you have to dim from their - a 100% requires I believe 16 continuous DIM commands so you can see it would take a while.

K
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